- Producer21/08/2016Olympic Medals - The Real Winning CountriesBy Javier Camara Rica and Gert Scholtz.The Rio Olympics has finished and the USA tops the list for the nation winning the most medals. Almost double the next best countries China and Great Britain. But this is what we would expect from three...
Comments25/08/2016 #31 Gert 🐝 Scholtz#30 @Flavio 🇯🇵 Souza 🐝 Now that would be interesting! The Olympics has many team sports as you know and the medal rank could then look quite different. For other interesting statistics - see the reference and website at the bottom of the buzz - I think you will like it. Thank you Flavio!25/08/2016 #30 Flavio 🇯🇵 Souza 🐝How about this : Countries rank by medals distributed (for example; in futebol or any other group/team sport it officially counts only one medal but in reality there are 11+ winners / 11+ medals are distributed for each player) @Javier 🐝 beBee View moreHow about this : Countries rank by medals distributed (for example; in futebol or any other group/team sport it officially counts only one medal but in reality there are 11+ winners / 11+ medals are distributed for each player) @Javier 🐝 beBee @Gert 🐝 Scholtz Close24/08/2016 #29 Donald 🐝 GrandyThanks for this post @Gert 🐝 Scholtz and @Javier 🐝 beBee. Very interesting stats. I like to follow the small countries. I admire their ability to produce great results with very limited resources. When these countries Croatia, Jamaica, Grenada, Bahamas etc: produce great results, i.e. metals, the entire population becomes motivated. The younger generation sees first hand what can be accomplished with hard work, focus and determination. This gives them joy and hope for the future.24/08/2016 #28 Lisa 🐝 GallagherQuite the interesting list! A few Countries I've never heard of and Australia - GB kicked it. I see the US is missing, appears we have work to do before the next Olympics, Spain too? Thanks for compiling this info @Gert 🐝 Scholtz View moreQuite the interesting list! A few Countries I've never heard of and Australia - GB kicked it. I see the US is missing, appears we have work to do before the next Olympics, Spain too? Thanks for compiling this info @Gert 🐝 Scholtz and @Javier 🐝 beBee Close23/08/2016 #27 Gert 🐝 Scholtz#25 @CityVP 🐝 Manjit Your reply and articles could lead to a really interesting debate - and that is if the Olympics should not be held every year in the same country or at centralized venues. The cost of the games is extreme and I don't think developing countries should incur that amount of expense. Thanks as always Manjit.23/08/2016 #25 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#24 Dear Lada I am in full agreement with you that sport global sport produces fabulous moments and memorable stories and is an uplifting story. http://indianexpress.com/sports/rio-2016-olympics/brazil-got-its-golden-olympics-football-moment-but-at-what-cost-2988825/ but historically the costs to host become more challenging and the burden falls on the tax payers http://indianexpress.com/sports/rio-2016-olympics/brazil-got-its-golden-olympics-football-moment-but-at-what-cost-2988825/ In the 21st Century why does anyone need to congregate in one city when the world is 24/7 - technology cuts through boundaries, my personal preference is to look at this at a big picture level, the concerns of this Washington Post reporter can then be alleviated https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2023/08/2016 #24 Lada 🏡 Prkic#14 Manjit, I didn't manage to read your comment earlier. At the Olympics people are participating under the flags of their countries, and they win medals for their countries as well. I'm proud of every achievement my country has accomplished because I live here, in Croatia, no matter of my nationality. For me that issue has never been crucial because I'm the "product" of mixing the various nationalities (Serbs, Croats, Czechs...), but I consider myself a Croat because I live in Croatia.
The world is changing and through the history many countries have been merged and separated. Who knows how the world will look like in another 20 or 30 years.22/08/2016 #21 Gert 🐝 Scholtz#20 @Flavio 🇯🇵 Souza 🐝 The analysis can be different in many ways - you are correct Flavio. The intention on this Buzz is to give but one different perspective to Nations and Countries winning medals at the Olympics. This could be a prompt for further discussion. Thank you for reading and commenting on the Buzz.22/08/2016 #20 Flavio 🇯🇵 Souza 🐝I think that is not really a straight forward analysis because the IOC has some rules for example : I believe countries have some quotes in the Olympics also over time there have been changes to borders, and countries merging and separating, so there is a history of countries participating at the Olympics that no longer exist or no longer compete under that name. Also on many occasions mixed teams with athletes from more than one country have participated.22/08/2016 #18 Javier 🐝 beBee#16 @Vincent Andrew of course ! we should be proud of our athletes ! this information is good to open eyes and see who are the best countries in terms of performance (medals per capita). The world's largest economies US, China, Japan, Germany, UK, France, India, Brazil, Italy, Spain, Canada.... only UK is on the top list. The other countries should have got much more medals to be at the same level !22/08/2016 #16 Vincent AndrewJoseph Schooling's achievemement is amazing, considering that he comes from tiny Singapore and beat Michael Phelps in swimming setting a new Olympic record in the process. Lee Chong Wei and Pandelela, both from Malaysia, also made their countries proud with silvers in men's badminton and women diving respectively. These athletes have done well because traditionally they have been strong in that sporting event for many years. Badminton is a good example. It all starts from the grassroots. Thanks @Gert 🐝 Scholtz for another good article.
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- Producer20/08/2016India Doubles its Olympics HaulThe nation that has the 2nd largest population in the world tonight doubled its medal count, but unfortunately to 2. That means that they have one more medal than Puerto Rico, but Puerto Rico has one more gold than India. Usain Bolt gained 9 Golds...
Comments20/08/2016 #26 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#21 The fact that India is not playing in the big time is a combination of in-built systemic limitation and no path for its brightest leaders to get through an established order of politicians who have learned how to play the game and stifle or prevent progress. If the system is broken at the core, it is not going to produce at the edges. The article points to the obvious things any of us can see at first glance - the writer is looking at outcomes and not root causes going back 70 years.
There has been moments of potential breakthrough at the State level, such as the Kerela model, which did two things absolutely right but failed on a huge third piece. The two things they did right were to invest in education and health - and that was applauded by Oxfam in 2008 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11698148 but there was a huge missing piece that made what they did right into a nightmare - and that was not having the jobs for the upwardly mobile citizens - so much so that people in Kerela had to take jobs overseas. The act of taking jobs overseas led to families being split which led to dysfunction in households - the net result of which was an increase in the suicide rate http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-times/deep-focus/In-Kerala-suicide-runs-in-the-entire-family/articleshow/7485596.cms
Yet one must congratulate the state government of Kerela for trying to make a difference, even if the initiative led to unintended consequences. The weakness of the Indian system is that it has democracy when it is better for it to be a 2 party country. With so many parties the entire democratic system of India is based on making political calculations and deals. Kind of ironic but in 1948 when it got independence, its leaders lacked vision except for one area of development, which was Nehru's dream to focus on developing technological capability - finally realized through the 1961 iniatitive for IIT's.20/08/2016 #25 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#24 Ultimately the Pierre de Coubertin Medal represents the ultimate spirit of the Olympics as we would like to think the Olympics to be. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11698148
The reality of the Olympics is that it is a huge commercial enterprise and if beBee scales to monumental levels, that is the real marker of playing in the big time, when beBee can reach the level of an Olympic sponsor.20/08/2016 #19 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#16 Dear @Mamen 🐝 Delgado of course, the voice of the majority should be respected, but that will never stop me wishing the best to the people of Catalonia, and the people of Scotland and the people of Quebec - that no well their individual ruling governments succeed in keeping their unions together, that their right to self-determination is one day realized. Especially Scotland because Catalonia and Quebec don't have a Mel Gibson that filmed Braveheart https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yis-VeOA6QM In that regard if self-determination is the will of the people, then let it be so - whether that be Catalonia, Scotland, Quebec, Hawaii, Kashmir or where-ever bloodshed free revolution is possible and the democracy of a vote is honoured as a 21st Century value.20/08/2016 #18 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#17 Dear Pamela, the younger generation has created change, but they have created change in the area of technology and not in the area of politics. IMHO the systemic design failure was baked in back in 1948 by simply stepping into the instruments of governance created by the British. It is a system that suits a British sensibility and not an Indian way and Nehru was the first Indian leader who led as an Indian but was born of a British sensibility. The Indian way is naturally chaotic, that is why Alexander the Great stumbled when he got exasperated trying to bring India to order. The British figured that out through Divide and Rule.
Through Nehru's dynasty the instruments of the British Raj are now the instruments of the Indian political elite. When the opportunity came to Prime Minister Modi to create revolutionary action, he was given the classified documents on the life of Subhash Chandra Bose, and came to the conclusion that releasing that information would first risk civil unrest and secondly embarrass a global Indian partner.
Bose's gamble was to think that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and so took his Azad Hind army and offered to fight the British in alliance with Hitlers Germany. It is the creation of the Azad Hind army and not the hunger strikes of Gandhi that made the British realize that their time was up. The nationalism of Modi adds a new chink and distraction to revolutionizing the Indian political system. The purpose of Ashoka's Wheel here is not to promulgate my views of India, but to explore my own learning because I am exploring fundamentally my own roots here - and so I explore what is flowing from my heart versus a political view.20/08/2016 #17 Pamela 🐝 Williams@CityVP 🐝 Manjit, I have worked with several India nationals over the last few years, several of them I keep in contact with via Facebook or LinkedIn. This is what I came to realize about these visitors to America; they love their home country but like you they see so much corruption in the government and so much negative associations with business going 'offshore' from the U.S. it affects them. One young man told me he would love to go home and be with his family but he knows that his opportunities are here. He is also in love with a young woman in his country but their marriage was (the last time we talked) was in doubt because of the class system that is still existent. Despite his successful professional endeavors her family still had doubts. I saw the sadness in him. It must be the younger generations that must push past and change the cultural and political so that the national pride that produces the support of elite athletes spreads through the heats of all Indians.20/08/2016 #16 Mamen 🐝 Delgado#15 My dear @CityVP 🐝 Manjit, I suppose you mean you hope one day that "the Catalans that want the independence" achieve their independence. That's at least what I hope. Nowadays they are not more than half population in Catalonia as we could see in the last elections. ;)20/08/2016 #15 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#12 Dear Mamen and do not forget that as a lifetime supporter of Tottenham Hotspurs football club, it is Real Madrid who end up taking our best players, so for sure I would love to see Spain focus on other things than football :-)
When it comes to Barcelona - I am sorry to say to all those people at BeBee who are Madrid based - but I support the idea of Catalonia and hope one day that the Catalans achieve their independence. In this regard I wish to celebrate Mireia Belmonte http://www.catalannewsagency.com/sports/item/catalan-swimmer-mireia-belmonte-brings-first-gold-for-spain-at-rio-olympics
I also support the idea of a modern India that is emerging as a 21st Century power but which is hindered by an Imperial system that should be more like a Republic like the United States of America, rather than a nation that left the infrastructure of the British Raj intact - but as a technology movement that can potentially revolutionize that infrastructure. Sorry I can't help thinking big :-)20/08/2016 #14 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#13 Dear Gert the 2nd largest democracy in the world is the United States of America, the largest democracy in the world is India. The size of the emerging middle class of India is the size of the ENTIRE population of the United States. What I am saying is that the failure of the Indian Olympic Committee is fully reflective of the failure of the Indian political system and its systemic corruption. Moreover this political system is simply the inheritance of the British Raj and not a transformation of independence. When the Americans threw the British out they thought carefully what their new system of governance shall be and their Declaration of Independence was an Declaration of Independence.
The decay of the Indian Railway System is not just a failure of investment, it is a failure of imagination - tell me what you see in the picture of the BBC report about India's railway system http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-28156439 I see a huge silver medal, where the gold medal metaphorically speaking is still the legacy of the Britsh Raj. Praveen see's a silver medal of national pride, but I see a silver lining for national transformation. Praveen see's himself as a proud Indian, but I see myself as an Indian born exiled abroad, no different to the whitewash of the history and tragic story of Subhas Chandra Bose. The corruption of India begins with the delusional and apathetic deference to a broken system of governance which in my mind ghostly symbols of the British Raj. That India celebrates like Fiji and Puerto Rico and not the largest democracy in the world is the point of this buzz.20/08/2016 #13 Gert 🐝 Scholtz@CityVP 🐝 Manjit Great sporting nations and are so largely because of governmental and institutional support for sport. Infrastructure, training facilities, incentives and access to coaching and international events all contribute to that nations' sporting prowess. What you say of India applies to many countries - and the converse as well. Great Buzz Manjit.20/08/2016 #12 Mamen 🐝 DelgadoCompletely agree @CityVP 🐝 Manjit, here in Spain the sports media give practically all relevance to football, more importance to the new hair cut a player than to global successes of any other sports called "minority". Now during the Olympic Games they are giving voice to all sports, but it is a blip and when the Games finish the media will return to the dictatorship of football (and I say this being a great fan of football, but not only).20/08/2016 #11 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#8 Dear Mamen, and that is why I joked that the Spanish gold medalist must surely wish she was Indian, because the Silver medalist is going to be treated like superstar when she gets back to India, especially since there is a huge emerging middle class of young people that do have prosperity but do want Indians to engage in globally recognized achievement. It is however a bit delusional to celebrate a Silver medal in a manner that one would expect Usain Bolt to be celebrated and it is this lack of proportionality which I am addressing - until Indians realize the reason they can't celebrate more is because they have an archaic model of governance that continues to bleed corruption and self-interest. I would love Carolina Marin of Spain to visit India so she could at least explain to the taxi driver, that she was the one who won the Gold.20/08/2016 #10 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#6 The problem of Indian government is that it is not Indian, it is a homage to the system of British rule left after Independence in 1948. One cannot end the British Raj and then do very little to modify the system of governance so it suits the Indian psyche.
Where there has been modifications India has moved into the 21st Century and that is the jewel of its technology mandate, that arose with the formation of IIT's - it was the brilliance of the governance framework - i.e. The Institutes of Technology Act 1961 that was the catalyst to create autonomous institutes of higher public education. What it could do in governance arrangements that now empowers thousands of world leading technologists, it has never done with its own sacred cow of government. For a country which calls itself a Republic, why has it kept the political systems of the British Raj? Even America spent time framing its governance for a true Declaration of Independence, that is why India today needs (and they do exist) dynamic young leaders - and not more leaders like Modi, who at one time could not travel to the United States http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303380004579520041301275638 So long as India keeps the ghost of the British Raj as its constitution, the brilliant capability it can unleash will remain mollycoddled by imperial and corrupt politicians.
Commercially it's media has the same mechanisms as America, the rise of Hollywood and Edward Bernays in PR all contributed to the commercial America we know now and the rise of globalization and Bollywood is creating a commercial India with a middle class that rivals the entire population of the United States (about 300 million+ strong) That middle class is where the new generation of Indian leaders can emerge but they require an imagination and a will to transform the existing system of governance, which today is a multi-party mess of chaos.20/08/2016 #9 Praveen Raj GullepalliAll the more worthy of praise are these twin achievements, considering that from such ''chaos'' has sprung such brilliant talent and ability! The Girl Child is once again cherished...Womanity is acknowledged. I heard someone say the other day that the contingent accompanying our Rio contestant has three radiologists in it. I was nonplussed! Radiologists? Why? What for? How did they get in? We know how dubious the selections can be and how much red tape needs to be cut through, but talent destined to shine, will shine through. Haven't we had geniuses like Dhyan Chand ''The Wizard'' (Gold in Field Hockey in 1928.32,36...Hitler was so impressed by him that he even offered him a Colonel's post in his army apparently...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp5BIHbZJwU ) Milkha Singh, and many many more, including a host of those who never go the opportunities they deserved so well to compete on a global arena. We have heard many tales of national champions in less popular national sports reduced to abject poverty and suffering in later years. Progress in sports and other non-industrial/corporate activities is possible only when the government recognises them enough (not just cricket where we have been world champions many a time, beating the best black in blue ;) and engages the RIGHT KIND of people to manage these portfolios down to the granularities. There is hope, thanks to these superwomen!20/08/2016 #7 Javier 🐝 beBeeGreat article and congratulations to the Indian and Spanish women for reaching the final! I will write an article about the results of countries on Olympics games after they are finished. Badminton is a very important sport in Asia and it is the first time that a "outsider" wins. Congratulations again to Carolina Marin!20/08/2016 #6 Dean Owen#4 #4 Harsh words, but true. Back when people started using BRIC, I knew China was different. China has Five Year Plans which are not going to be reversed due to changing administrations every 4 years. They covered infrastructure, education, urbanization, you name it. India lacked, and still lacks critical infrastructure. 2008 marked China's debut onto the world stage with the Beijing Olympics and Shanghai Expo. They made sure of it and topped the medals list in Gold medals. When I came to China in 2008 the first thing I noticed was that people are driven. I see that with the Indian people too, but the people need the support of govt and that was the difference. Great comments CityVP Manjit.20/08/2016 #4 CityVP 🐝 Manjit#1 #1 Part 2 of 2 : Such a dysfunctional system coupled with rudimentary training facilities lead to a focus on short-term thinking and then the small c of Culture can be introduced because that induces subservience rather than excellence. Parents want to know how much money their kids will make and yes there are those who think non-sports careers are the way to go, so that has an effect also.
If an athlete could rely that basic rules can be followed, that will at least create the foundation of structure to aid the development process. These are ruthless conditions in a country that also can have a ruthless climate.
Now China - with its one party state, unlike India with its 6 recognized national parties and a whole host unrecognized parties, has mowed through its corruption problems, identified its high potentials, developed sports coaching systems, built first-class facilities and goes into the Olympic games with expectations of gold - and the price for 2nd is massive sense of shame. In this regard the shambolic Indian system is less ruthless - but at least with Chinese athletes they have their moment in the sun - and ultimately China realizes the geopolitical value of Sports. Instead of calling China Chinese and India Indian - China should be called the Land of Order, and India called the Land of Chaos.
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