- 17/01/2017Great resource on stress and anxiety research via Neuroscience News. As always, keep in mind that any single study means very little, and can be misleading until it has been replicated a number of times.stress – Neuroscience Newsneurosciencenews.com Neuroscience News has recent neuroscience research articles, brain research news, neurology studies and neuroscience resources for neuroscientists, students, and science fans and is always free to join. Our neuroscience social network has science...
- 17/01/2017Interesting article on how humans label things, both good and bad. A precursor to more coming on name calling in our society and on social media, used as a form of degradation and verbal abuse..How labels affect communication and conflict resolutionwww.communicationandconflict.com This page considers the impact of labels and preconceptions on the effectiveness of communication and conflict...
- Producer04/01/2017Social Media Social Commentary: Observation or judgement?It might surprise you to hear I've been called a judgmental prick before. ;)I thought I was offering my observations.What's the difference?All across the magical land that is Social Media we see opinion pieces left and right. We see debates all over...
Comments14/01/2017 #9 Max🐝 J. Carter#8 Thank you for sharing this Robert and here is @Ian Weinberg buzz on it.
https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ian-weinberg/prejudice-and-other-violations05/01/2017 #7 Max🐝 J. Carter#5 Part 2
Once we get into exploring those views for me it's about creating common ground and language as we have a world audience and English is hard enough to learn and follow as it is. Mostly because of slang and words changing meaning based on location.
We create a world narrative in these discussions whether that is our intent our not. To forget there is an audience watching to me would be avoiding the responsibility that stepping up and speaking up comes with.
At no point in this am I judging myself, I am offering deeper observation into my thought process to foster understanding of perspective and chosen form of communication and why it looks the way it does and that none of it is intended to be a personal slight against anyone.
This is where the investigative starts with investigating yourself to understand why you might present yourself one way or the other at any given moment.
Observing where you might want to make changes or not but never judging or condemning yourself or the other participants if you can help it. The best way to avoid that is to keep it to the what and not talk about the who is presenting the what.
It can often lead to further miscommunication and no one likes that.05/01/2017 #6 Max🐝 J. Carter#5 Part 1
Harvey this is where language gets us into discussion in understanding that often where you are standing is changing the meaning of the word based on culture however we limit ourselves when we limit our perceptions to what the surrounding environment is.
To me from my view in an online discussion you are interacting with one and at the same time talking to the audience that never comments.
I am not sure if affirming that I am not an asshole or idiot is really a compliment or just an observation of truth.
Jim also expressed that I had him scratchin' his head which meant I must have failed somewhere in the piece above to adequately explain myself.
I always look at the piece as the jumping off point.
That it brings up different views and questions to be explored is part of the art.05/01/2017 #5 Harvey Lloyd#2 Max in our communications we are communicating with someone. A post is from you/me directed not at any one person, comments are directed at individuals.
@Jim Murray paid you a complement, he had read enough of your posts to realize your concepts have merit but my interpretation of his following statement is that your communications style is one that requires getting used too. One has to read between the lines.
My earlier comment was to display that from VA to NYC to CA many folks interpret things differently. The word observation to me means a reflection of facts, no conclusions. Judgement on the other hand has taken available facts condensed them into an opinion.
From my perspective a judgement may be entertaining and food for thought, but with out requisite observation i cant always share your judgement.
Communications is a business that my hat goes off to folks like Jim and others who have to turn phrases, pictures or comments into something the masses can hear. Its an art form.05/01/2017 #4 Max🐝 J. Carter#3 Jim do you condemn yourself for the stupid shit we all do or do you observe yourself and think about doing it better next time?
We all have the right to grow and change and become more than we were. When we judge ourselves we are condemning ourselves to be that person and to pay for those crimes so to speak instead of forgiving ourselves for that one time it slipped and I did that thing or said this or that.
It's also taking time to observe that it is not the usual that one sees in oneself and one's behavior. One has observed in the past that one knows better and there are no excuses.
Instead of "I did thing stupid thing and i am must be..."
Which condemns one to repeat the behavior instead of looking for ways to avoid the repeat..05/01/2017 #3 Jim Murray"Speaking observationally to yourself about yourself is much healthier than judging yourself." I'm sorry Max but this, I find really hard to comprehend. You are splitting the finest of intellectual hairs here, and frankly it does nothing to bolster your thesis. "Speaking observationally to yourself about yourself is the exact same thing as judging yourself IMHO. Sorry, but I've read enough of your stuff to know you're not an asshole or an idiot. But I see some statements that you make that cause me the scratch my head and wonder if you really thought them through or are just, as you say exercising your right to self-talk. And that's OK, but just don't expect everybody to be agreeing with you.04/01/2017 #2 Max🐝 J. Carter#1 Perceptions and opinions are like assholes we all have one. ;)
Our environment refines our perceptions. The family I was doing this with is Hungarian. Respect was still high on the list.
Respect starts with respecting oneself.
I like it when a debate gets heated and the two sides still keep it to the "what" instead of the "who."
My Hungarian family also raised me you take care of who ever shows up because that's just what you do.
We took in more than one person who needed a place to stay while I was growing up. That to me is living respect for each other as human beings regardless of our backgrounds, you reach out and give an assist because you are there and you can.
Respect is earned and can never be demanded and have it be true respect.
Respect is another one of those things that has a subjective nature to it.
In my house I was taught how to take a joke an fire one back with a quickness. A Harvard study showed people who exercise sarcasm and a quickness are actually more intelligent than most other people. Study confirmed as a scientific fact.
Human beings will always make their own choice how to perceive whatever it is they are engaged in, it's simply being human and doesn't matter where you are.
Often the perspective we attempt to apply to another one is the things we are saying about ourselves. and projecting.
This would be the part of the article where I was talking about ignoring one's guilt and finding that thing we are guilty of in others.
We have all been told in way or another to do unto others as we would have one unto us. It's a good idea. It lives well.
Here is where it doesn't.
One decides to lie to others and accepts others will lie to one.
One decides to be honest with all and expects others to call one on one's bullshit so one has no problem calling others on theirs.
Same concept applied in two ways that causes a lot of shit when the different views start to interact.04/01/2017 #1 Harvey Lloyd@Max Carter I am a good ole southern boy raised in the rural lands of Virginia. Manners were and are everything. Respect is off the charts demanded. You were raised in a totally different communications style. Now subsequent years have had me all over the country so the wry little country boy has been expanded a little. Having worked in and around New York i had to learn very quickly that everyone wasn't mad at me they just felt that way about everybody.
If i may offer a perspective. In a post or conversation two things are happening. A writer/speaker and reader/listener. This would introduce the question do i communicate for someone to hear or post so i can hear? Well i can interpret myself pretty easily, because in that loop i am always right. But if i need someone else to hear then i need to change my communications style, not my message.
I have picked up in some of your posts that you wrote for my ears, but also have read posts that you were writing for you to hear. Nothing wrong with either style, but each will draw its own perceptions from the reader. Being of a southern heritage we consider this a choice. From a New York perspective its a inherited cultural thing.
- Producer14/01/2017The Language of Peace, The Language of Positive RelationshipsThis article written some 6 years ago, is still highly relevant, considering the escalation of aggressive and even abusive rhetoric in our political system, and online.Words of Anger, and Language of Peace Recently, I came across some Facebook posts...
Comments14/01/2017 #1 Neil SmithTimely post Robert. The person or group insisting that the "other" is entirely at fault are also implying that they alone have all the answers therefore anyone who disagrees can be ignored or denigrated. The problem is that we don't really see too many people who have ALL the answers. To everything. Without respecting the right of people to hold opposing opinions it is very hard to have a debate and virtually impossible to alter anyone's thinking for the greater good. Alas I expect to see more stridency and less compromise over the next wee while.
- Producer04/12/2016Prejudice and other violationsSo prevalent has it become that one can almost conclude that standing in judgement of each other has become our default mode. Closely allied to this latter mode, or in fact as a consequence of it, is prejudice. The prevailing levels of judgement...
Comments14/01/2017 #24 Ian Weinberg#23 @Brian McKenzie I respect your perspective as I respect much of the philosophy of Ayn Rand. I also respect your straight, no bullshit approach. But I know (have experienced) that you are a genuine value contributor in the inter-human space. Would you accept that if we modulate our aggression (in all its forms) in engagements with others along our life paths, we enhance our own performance and gratification as well as move the other individual into a more resourceful space? This was in fact my main point of departure in regard to the philosophy of Ayn Rand: I value strength, individualism, self-reliance etc but there is a collective out there and although we're powerless to change it, we can make our micro-environments (the spaces that we inhabit) a better place.14/01/2017 #23 Brian McKenzie#21 They say that each generation rebels against its last, the Rentals (The only endearment I have for my parents) were hippy counter culture wanna-bes. I went hard on conservatism, individualism, self reliance and military where they went soft with blathering peace collectives, kymbaya, free love and drugs. My kids will never repeat the cycle. Namely because I am fixed and I would never marry. This family line ends with me. No more fodder for the Marxist Globalist Elitist Machine.14/01/2017 #22 Robert BacalInteresting, particularly in the comment section where there's a discussion of judgement, which complements my article on praise that is toxic at http://work911.com/communication/toxicpraise.htm View moreInteresting, particularly in the comment section where there's a discussion of judgement, which complements my article on praise that is toxic at http://work911.com/communication/toxicpraise.htm , particularly as it relates to judging PEOPLE and their beliefs and actions. Close14/01/2017 #21 Harvey Lloyd@Brian McKenzie brings up an interesting concept. In the 50's and before there existed a harsh and enforced set of social rules. The 60's saw a break away from these rules. Today we have social rules that seem to be untethered to any standard. With this in mind can we label a persons behavioral patterns without considering the social environment they live. This excludes the extreme cases.
Our child narrative brings us into our professional lives with some hardwired understandings. In today's world we speak to tolerance but in reality we sell conformity. But the conformity is based on the social groups child narrative not necessarily in line with our own. Does this not create a cognitive dissonance that must be worked through? But this aligns us differently with close family groups versus social/professional groups.
The labels we use describe our reactions, but if we take away one of the competitive groups, would the labeled behaviors become something different? In my leadership of others i have seen this as performance anxiety. The life narrative of an individual meets the goals and performance objectives of their social/professional lives. Bosses, teams, friends and goals need to return a satisfaction to the individual. I see through the life of an objective that it is difficult for members to get satisfaction when they cant apply their personal life narrative. I believe this is what many leaders are discussing as the soft skills deficit. How people react to performance anxiety is what we are labeling, maybe.14/01/2017 #20 Lisa 🐝 GallagherHi @Ian Weinberg, I usually share my own life experiences and I hope I am not appearing to pass judgment or give concrete advice to others. If I do give advice, it's based on my own experiences and I can only hope I convey that well and that my advice is from a personal perspective, not Professional. As for reason, I hope it does prevail. I've been a bit weary of reason lately considering the climate in the US as one example of many. If I do present facts, I back them up with sources. I hope I understood your buzz correctly. I think sometimes written words can be misunderstood or misconstrued- I'm speaking on behalf of myself.14/01/2017 #19 Ian Weinberg@Brian McKenzie I would contend that the rules of engagement are at least as important as the content of engagement. If disregarded, the 'new' and the 'different' would be rendered irrelevant and so we throw out the baby with the bath water!. Ultimately if the collective is to evolve we will need to promote and maintain mutually respectable connections. Otherwise we will perpetuate a mediocrity of monkeys!14/01/2017 #18 Brian McKenzieI really get tired of being labelled a psychopath or sociopath because I don't agree with the meme of the moment. The brush that paints that draws a larger picture of them than of who I am. I don't like society - nor it's labels - nor it's prattling & bleeting about getting along while ever working to limit freedom, garnish wages and impose their propaganda. Keep it over there - away from me. NO. We Can't all Just Get Along.06/12/2016 #17 Mohammed Sultan@Ian Weinberg .When I read any post ,with the instinct of a researcher I always jump to give conclusions and recommendation,so please don't "prejudge" me as giving advice.One of the most dangerous facts is to become captive to our held beliefs and consider it as the right way to go and the best decision to take.When we become regularly tuned with our prejudgment we may lose our personal balance and start criticizing or blaming others,and even become unable to provide anything new.The more often we look at things in this way ,the more it become difficult to think about them in a different way.The danger is that our past experience may also become a trap and rigid way when we assume that the new problems can be solved in the same way we tended to use with the old ones.The question is always ;Are we able to see our past blinders and the new blinders resulting from our expectations about others? As @Phil once said in one of his comments on another post;Distorted thinking is contagious ...I will also add and when it becomes a habit it will spread.05/12/2016 #15 Harvey Lloyd@Ian Weinberg this discussion is an important one. Reading the thoughts of both yourself and @Phil Friedman have been challenging. I do believe the discussion embodies the current election craziness we sense at the center.
I hold the belief that as humans we must decern our environment and make decisions. Whether it be fatherly, family or professional. From the outside this could appear judgmental, not haveing all of the discerning pieces that went into the choice.
I read your post more from a perspective of general attitudes/perceptions. Your post stated many of the things we observe in social behaviours, in our post-election environment. Many of the folks who silently sat in awe of the past 8 years have been awakened and found a voice. Is this good or bad, is for another debate. However, it does exacerbate your thoughts here.
Thanks to you and Phil for haveing this enlightening discussion. I would make one further point though, consensus on the debate will have to happen at some point in the future. What we hold to be as close to the truth must be decided. The lines are being drawn and without a clear set of guidelines of "judgement" within our social understanding, it will not end well.05/12/2016 #14 Phil Friedman#13 Sorry, Ian but that is NOT what I am saying, nor is it what I said. What I am saying is:
First, I think that some of the inferences being made from your discussion are not validly drawn from what you say, but themselves appear to me to be based on prejudgments. For example, I do not take what you are saying to actually assert or support the view that there is no objective truth. You can correct me if I am wrong about that.
Second, what I am asserting is that we must have an intellectual commitment to the existence of objective truth of some kind whether or not we can ultimately know that truth perfectly. If not, then all science and other intellectual pursuits are meaningless.
Third, that what is subjective and often relative are our perceptions of truth (or fact), which perceptions may be more or less in alignment with underlying reality. Science and other intellectual pursuits represent for me an ongoing dialogue that seeks to move closer to that reality by exploring and exchanging, examining and discussing ideas and concepts. We don't "make" truth; we seek to discover it, albeit only more or less successfully, and always tentatively.
Fourth, the dialogue involved, of needs, requires making judgments all the time. And there is nothing wrong with being "judgmental" in that sense. But being "judgmental" in that sense is often confused with what I term "pre-judgment" -- or in other words prejudice based on irrelevant factors, not in any way related to whether a set of assertions or postulates may be more or less reflective of the underlying reality, the "truth".
Fifth, if you insist on conflating being judgmental (which is inevitable) with being prejudiced or pre-judgmental, you are doing a disservice to the cause of intellectual engagement and exploration, as well as opening up the door to the proponents of Universal and Absolute Relativism -- which is nihilistic claptrap. Cheers and thanks for being open to discussion.05/12/2016 #13 Ian Weinberg#12 Phil, please walk me through this: If I assert something to be true and it is true, then it represents the truth. Epistemologically it is the closest to fact. One assumes that my truth is developed from an honest and comprehensive reasoning of all available, relevant substrate. I understand from your response that other asserted truths relating to the same concept provide no further epistemological value if derived in the same manner. And further, if the truth of individual assertions be limited by subjectivity and it is acknowledged to be incomplete truth due to subjectivity, then it is an untruth because even if pooled with other subjectivity-limiting truths, there can be no further evolution towards truth. Concluding then, authentic fact is derived from an honest and comprehensive reasoning of all available relevant substrate which renders redundant the dialoguing of similar concepts derived in the same way.05/12/2016 #12 Phil Friedman#11 and while you're at it, consider if you will, The Liar's Paradox. Which amounts to how one evaluates the assertion by someone that all statements are lies. If the statement is true, then it must be a lie and therefore false. Or if true, then it belies the claim that all statements are lies. And so again it must be false. I believe that the problem with absolute relativism is akin to The Liar's Paradoex. cheers!05/12/2016 #9 Phil Friedman#8 No , Ian, I am asserting exactly the opposite of what you take me to be saying. Your interpretation is symptomatic of dogmatic relativism, which pretends to celebrate rational discussion, but which actually makes an a priori assumption that precludes consideration of any position other than your own. I did NOT say your assertion are grunts. I only said if your assertion that there are no absolute truths, than all assertions, including yours, are grunts. And so your position is its own reductio ad absurdum. That is a far cry from saying your assertions are grunts.05/12/2016 #8 Ian Weinberg#7 Phil, we are unlikely to arrive at absolute truth, which in itself is probably a relative concept . Our best effort at making sense of our environment is to use objective reasoning in the context of a given subjectivity, in an attempt to transcend the limits of our subjectivity. Additional to this is the engagement with other subjective folk in a constructive way so that more substrate becomes available for reasoning and evaluation and the subjective bias is diluted. The mode of engagement is fundamental because if we retain mutual sensitivity and remain in rapport we achieve, collectively, a more valuable outcome. By referring to my (and presumably other) assertions as just another collection of ‘grunts’ you expose your own modus of engagement in communication. You appear to be at a place where you are judging other points of view as ‘grunts’ and default to accepting your own judgement. It begs the question of what reasoning substrate your bias would allow you to place value upon for personal integration? There is a possibility that at the end of the day your epistemological compass would have shrunk you down to your own turf/comfort zone/world-view after disrespecting a whole host of external ‘grunts’ irrespective of their intrinsic value!05/12/2016 #7 Phil Friedman#4 Sorry Ian, without validi judgement -- whether or not we can ultimately determine which judgments are valid -- there is no truth. Without truth -- whether or not we can ultimately determine what is true and what is not -- there is only subjective grunting. And that includes your assertions here. So if I accept your assertions, then ipso facto they become meaningless, with no basis for accepting them over any contrary assertions. And, therefore, you will pardon me for choosing to ignore your grunts and choosing instead to stick with mine.
No, your position, like all attempts to assert absolute relativism, is self-nullifying as worthy of consideration. For such arguments are always their own reductios as absurdum. Cheers.
- Producer12/01/2017Social Media Social Commentary: Does anyone deserve to be treated with ridicule, skepticism and animosity?I say no.I think that we make excuses for this kind of behavior is a big part of the problems many face in Social Media Land. Look at the title they use.Look what they are writing about.They are not normal.It's just part of life.Develop a thicker...
Comments17/01/2017 #72 Max🐝 J. Carter#71 It wasn't my choice to have that big spider in my work center, however I get the point you are trying to make. I frequently had one of the guys in my shop take it out of the aquarium and sneak up behind me because he knew I would freak out. I had it forced on me. It was later in life I chose to face my fear on my own.
Skepticism is a synonym with mistrust and in my mind that means that when we embrace the idea of being a skeptic as a life view we are saying we trust no one or to say we assume guilt until proven innocent and I feel that is not a psychologically healthy way to live as it has one making judgment before anything is revealed.
To me there is no such thing as healthy skepticism or cynicism and these terms are used to mask a deeper psychological issue often brought on by trauma at some point in life. Or they are used as an excuse for bad behavior and an unhealthy mental and emotional outlook on life.
While we have mechanisms in place to attempt to keep children safe we also have this thing we call the internet where they can find all of those things with no age verification required.
That in and of itself makes any other safeguards we take pretty meaningless and all for show on the world society level in my opinion.17/01/2017 #71 Aleta Curry#66 No, I don't think you quite got what I was saying, @Max🐝 J. Carter. For one thing, I wasn't actually talking about myself. Desensitizing therapy is one thing, and professionals agree that it can work. In your case, *you* *chose* to place yourself around spiders; you picked where, you picked when, you picked how. No one locked you into a small room and released thousands of species of spider in there with you.
There are people who for whatever reason can't make judgement calls. Let's take youth as an obvious example. Their brains aren't yet developed enough to always act in their own best interest. We are not merely skeptical when people suggest things that can put children into harm, we already have censorship in place to protect them, we just don't call it that.16/01/2017 #70 John Vaughan#69 Sounds like - well - if not a plan, at least a reasonable approach, @John White, MBA This was not obvious from the apparent threat of blocking in Comment #58.
Perhaps awkward, nonetheless @Max🐝 J. Carter re-activated a discussion in this thread of behavior, integraity & censorship, etc.which is increasingly a topic on all the socialNets, it seems. Gang bullying, whether by an informal group followers, or by (*ahem*) a formal group of 'ambassadors', just ain't pretty. https://www.bebee.com/producer/@john-vaughan/the-emperor-s-new-clothes-epilogue
Good luck in a difficult job.16/01/2017 #69 John White, MBA#68 @John Vaughan, I too was a victim of censorship on LinkedIn many times in groups where I was flagged inappropriately by others. We have studied LinkedIn's failures at great length and are doing our absolute best not to repeat them here. When someone reports abuse on beBee each case is looked at and both sides are considered before taking any action. We don't want to have a platform like Twitter where abuse in rampant. I was the victim of a massive troll attack by a colleague on Twitter this past year where he used a gang mentality against to his followers to start tweeting and retweeting his insults at me. I asked him to stop in a private message and he went on a rant over PM after I politely again asked him to leave me alone. After two days, I finally heard back from Twitter saying that they saw the case as a disagreement and not abuse. Even though it is Twitter, I was still shocked. My point is that we're trying very hard to find a balance between becoming a playground for trolls and erroring on the side of LinkedIn and censoring great content producers like @Candice 🐝 Galek and the many others of us that have been censored over there. It's been my experience that no social media platform has solved this issue. Again, we are learning from the failures of other networks and doing our best to be fair to all parties involved. But most importantly, maintain beBee as a platform for intellectual exchange (heated discussion is ok!) but free of slanderous personal attacks.16/01/2017 #68 John Vaughan#63 At the risk of of picking a few more nits, @John White, MBA:
It's entirely possible for someone to engage in a form of a personal attack ... and do so quite politely, indirectly and cleverly
They're some of our most popular, beloved and famous quotes & quips. Where do you draw the line?
I don't envy your Enforcer role, John. I personally believe that such issues are better resolved by exposure, rather than by censorship.
"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman." "The most important political office is that of the private citizen."
-- Louis D. Brandeis
At any rate, any well-regulated system allows for reconciliation. If someone feels that they have been unjustly blocked by a top-down system of censorship - Is there recourse? Some of this has to do with implementation. Is the offensive statement blocked? Is the person blocked from participation? in that thread? in beBee altogether?
Contextual Disclosure: I was repeatedly "moderated" (i.e. denied service) on LinkedIn for violating a poorly-articulated, poorly-implemented censorship rule. (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/well-least-linkedin-consistent-i-guess-john-vaughan). It's a slippery slope.16/01/2017 #67 John Vaughan#63 Sounds reasonable enough @John White, MBA> We reject "a personal attack on someone's character"
Not to nitpick, but I'm an Information Architect - the issue appears to be :
* NOT so much "offensive language", per se (in the sense of profanity)
* but rather "ad hominem" (i.e. personal) attacks
Sounds sort-of-sensible to me. I would suggest changing the term so that beBee's policy is expressed more clearly by your label. i.e. "Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Profanity isn't pretty, but it's tolerated."
(It's sort of like beBee's mis-use of 'relevant' as the label for its 'Like' button. Branding isn't everything. Communication is also ... relevant.)
Is there anything else that qualifies as "unacceptable"?16/01/2017 #66 Max🐝 J. Carter#59 Aleta I get what you're saying.
However it was after you heard what the therapy is that you began to mistrust the professional and became skeptical.
There is a theory that in order to get over a fear you must face it.
I am not making light of your phobia. I had bad arachnophobia for years until I forced myself to be around spiders. This was the advice I was given by more than one mental health professional when I brought it up.
When I was in the Air Force we had a tarantula in the shop as a pet. I hated seeing that big spider everyday. Loathed it. I was made fun of quite a bit by the other guys in the shop over it.
There are many different techniques and I can certainly understand why you felt they way you did about this professional technique for dealing with your specific phobia.
Peoples fears are real to them and not something to be taken lightly ever.16/01/2017 #65 John Vaughan#61 Thank you @John White, MBA for confirming what most of us would acknowledge as being unacceptable. I agree. There's an element of the common sense' to the example you identify.
However; You also say "includes". And that goes to the larger question. We may agree about the specific instance you identify ... but "offensive language" is potentially much, much larger. I outlined some of the relevant issues in my comment #60 - and @Max🐝 J. Carter takes it a little further.
Since beBee has now announced that (well-intentioned) censorship will be a policy, I look forward to a clarification that policy, so that we might consciously - and with good intent - explore the dominoes that fall from it. There are a bunch of them. And - apparently- they are open to interpretation. by beBee.
Before anybody gets their panties all in a twist, let me clarify:
* 'censorship' is not necessarily a bad word. It is a useful term which describes this topic.
Assuming that this thread continues, we're going to engage in some challenging, important discussion.16/01/2017 #60 John Vaughan#58 Since beBee is now prepared to censor participation on the basis of "offensive language" ("I will block anyone who use offensive language." sez @Javier 🐝 beBee) - Could we have a definition of "offensive language"?
Not to belabor the obvious, but beBee participants (including many 'ambassadors') have a longstanding history of using salty language to spice their contributions. What are the practical boundaries of acceptability?
Is the word "bullshit" a no-no? If I package it instead as "BS" or "bull chips" - is my usage 'acceptably offensive'?
Some people use profanity casually. It can even be used to emphasize - in a Poz-itive way, mon. s.a. "That's a helluva article, Phil. It's effin' awesome."
Is offensiveness determined by language, intent or demeanor?
(side note : Is there a mechanism for disputing a censorship call? or is BeBee's opinion the unilateral determinant?)
You appear to be the designated Offensive Language Enforcer, @John White, MBA ... clarification?
I pose this informational challenge because I received a beBee Notification that Javier had addressed a comment on this thread to my attention - even tho I don't see that in his comments. Nonetheless, both of his comments are about blocking & censorship. Interesting. ... clarification?16/01/2017 #59 Aleta CurryWell, once again beBee has advised me that my comment is just too darned long. Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
The abridged version: ridicule (the personal abuse kind; I exclude general sarcasm) is not acceptable. Acrimony is the refuge of the defeated. Skepticism, on the other hand, might be useful and can occasionally be absolutely bloody necessary. I'll give a quick example: I was looking up treatments for claustrophobia and came across a site wherein it was suggested that the thing to do was to lock the patient in a dark enclosed space where s/he could not be heard (presumably so that the moron who wrote this didn't have to listen to the victim screaming as they were driven insane). I mean, this is not just wrong, it's criminally sadistic, and yet it's out there on the web. (I did one of those accidental clicks and lost the site, or I'd have complained to someone.)
More in a post as soon as I have a moment.16/01/2017 #58 Javier 🐝 beBeeWe will have the 'block' feature soon, so we will be able to block anyone. I will block anyone who use offensive language. I dont mind who is involved on it. I WILL KEEP beBee cool without offensive language. Thanks @John White, MBA View moreWe will have the 'block' feature soon, so we will be able to block anyone. I will block anyone who use offensive language. I dont mind who is involved on it. I WILL KEEP beBee cool without offensive language. Thanks @John White, MBA for helping me on this ;) Close14/01/2017 #54 Robert Bacal#51 You, Grouchy and Grumpy - I can't remember who is whom are two major contributors to uncivil remarks, characterizations, etc. In fact, the four or five of you who support each other and remain silent when another of you attacks are equally guilty of the attack behaviors.
We don't have to change the world here. We only have to convince the four or five who constantly attack those who disagree with them, to decide it's in their own best interests to be aged with grace and tolerance, and to lead by civil example.
To take pride in ranting and raving is an amazing thing. And so is the mobbing that you carry out.14/01/2017 #53 Max🐝 J. Carter#50 @Joris Plaatstaal
I love this view you brought to the discussion and the questions you have asked. Thank you. It's a view I hadn't thought of and is worth exploring on this topic.
I have written before in a buzz that part of social media is all about image. I agree with you there.
Where I would say that Social Media is different than Don Quixote is that on social media those images are attached to real people, real thinking and feeling human beings. In my mind this fact is too often lost and allows it to become more like Don Quixote as you suggested.
When we talk a better world and what it takes to build that better world we plant the seeds in the minds of others to grow.
The more we talk about it, the more seeds we plant. When we lay out some loose structures for building that better world it gives people actionable steps to take in their own lives to be the change they want to see in the world.
I never thought of it like that however I am inclined to agree with the idea of The Matrix being a modern idea of Don Quixote. Humans battling programs algorithms in a simulate dream world.
I disagree and feel the world does need the discussions to happen.
The discussions inspire change in view and that change in view shows where the help is needed and can be given.
The greatest help the world needs is compassion and understanding instead of competition and fighting.
The discussion leads to the action and is part of the helping the world process.14/01/2017 #52 Max🐝 J. Carter#51 Jim it's not that I expect anything to happen.
For it to become a kinder and gentler place the people who abuse are required to see themselves as they are and acknowledge they do it and make the decision not to.
I don't see it as a sport or a game as it's real people and real lives being impacted and to be to label it a sport means that we are keeping score and if so how do we score points?
There is a difference between asking questions to call someone out and being abusive and slanderous.
"Most of it sounds like the mutterings of a bunch of nerds who have been beat up in a high school washroom. "
Where does this assertion come from?
Is it really necessary?
Why even say it?
I could make my guesses.....
- Producer14/12/2016How to deal with Social media abuseWe have all heard enough about social media bullying and whatever you want to call it. It happens and I would rather talk about solutions for how to handle it. Here on beBee there is this wonderful tool that allows you to report abusive comments...
Comments15/12/2016 #9 Pascal DerrienHi Max, what if it is simply the principle of reciprocity or affinity? I don't see too much tagging and have not received a request to comment either now I am pretty crap at commenting (a credible explanation I am sure) but even that could not constitute a sufficient critical mass? Just thinking out loud. Personally I don't do those things and just use the tool by proposing the posts regularly within the first day of posting I then let people decide whether they want to read it or not let alone commenting :-)15/12/2016 #8 Max🐝 J. Carter#7 Well @Nic Fester I would way absolutely it is like the concept of match fixing. People are working in the back stage to fix the results we all see that are inflated by making alliances to make sure their work is always at the top of the feed and that the group makes sure anyone in the counter is discredited in some way.
The being overly complimentary presents a false image of being a really nice person that all should hail and respect because look at all the nice things they say back and forth to each other.
This drives up the comment count and keeps the material at the top of the feed and is full of nothing but what I call french kissing each others assholes in order to bolster image and out the fix in to drive up popularity.
This creates the false image of expertise and authority or being consider an influencer or someone the rest of us should being paying attention to.
This is psychologically unhealthy because it creates the delusion that they can not be challenged or countered in their presentations and if you do they use labels such as negative to remove guilt for becoming abusive in their behavior to protect their status created image that has no real substance. It creates a narcissistic behavior pattern.
And the way I have watched it play it out in life is that if no one steps up and says something nothing ever changes.
Before change can happen someone has to take a stand and I always say when you stand for the right things you never stand alone regardless of the distance between you.14/12/2016 #4 Aurorasa SimaWith all respect to unfounded accusations and pointless negativity ... You come across as a sneaky person dressing up as "friend" to tell people what others talk behind their backs.
You talk about abuse and bullies, but it was you I saw calling out people by name with insults and accusations.
It is up to you what you write about. It is also up to you if you want to see me as yet another member of the army of enemies that is obviously tailgating you. Or you could consider that I never leave aggressive comments and wonder if I have a point.
I want you to know that your malicious comments were the biggest part of the reason why I did not use beBee for a few weeks. Still, it´s your right to spread whatever atmosphere you want. Just, please, do not pretend that you "help" beBee.
If three people like each other´s posts is not relevant in the big picture. If three people leave because some writers make beBee look like an evil Kindergarten it does matter. At least to me.
DISCLAIMER: This statement expresses my personal opinion and not the viewpoint of beBee or its employees.14/12/2016 #3 Max🐝 J. Carter#1 When I have 'it's not fair!' feelings like this, at some point I stop and ask myself if it's a legitimate gripe, or if my Inner Child is jealous of 'the Cool Kids' in school.
@Aleta Curry View more#1 When I have 'it's not fair!' feelings like this, at some point I stop and ask myself if it's a legitimate gripe, or if my Inner Child is jealous of 'the Cool Kids' in school.
@Aleta Curry You are correct to bring this up and I refrained form writing on this topic out of fear of being viewed this and then decided fuck it, why not instead of allowing fear to make my decisions for me.
I took a long hard look inward to make sure I was doing it for the right reason and it's why I did not use names and asked that none are brought in the comments.
Thank you for bringing it up as I am sure many who read it might have the same questions come to mind. Close14/12/2016 #1 Aleta Curry'Typically what I have seen in various social media environments is a group of people who regurgitate back to each other and are overly complimentary to the point of making an Awakened soul nauseous. '
Is it abusive? Cliquish, yes, irritating in its obsequiousness, certainly, but abusive?
When I have 'it's not fair!' feelings like this, at some point I stop and ask myself if it's a legitimate gripe, or if my Inner Child is jealous of 'the Cool Kids' in school.
'The groups never think of their behavior as being abusive and often engage in these activities to bolster each others online image. Typically the (sic) email each other before posting their pieces on a particular platform to ensure the comments and shares are ready to be given to drive their views up and create a false image of being an expert or authority on whatever it is they are presenting.'
Well, this is a valid point. Not so much 'abusive' ... well, abusive in a different sense, that of abusing or 'gaming' the system. Sure, it adds to the detriment of other writers and I daresay to the Community as a whole, in that a playing field which is supposed to be level is no longer level.
Comments12/12/2016 #1 Preston Vander VenHave you ever heard the phrase, “Sticks and stones can hurt my bones, yet words can never hurt me.” This is quite the opposite. Words can do the most damage.
“But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.” (Colossians 3:8)
Now imagine someone speaking harmful to you. It is like them you a dart inside a blow-dart and aiming right at you. Sometimes, people don’t realize what they are saying is harmful and is like shooting little darts over the front of us like porcupines. If someone is really angry, they will aim for your heart, like a poison dart. A blow-dart is used by inserting the projectile inside the pipe (known as a blowgun) and using the force created by one’s breath to give the projectile momentum. Its propulsive power is limited by the user’s respiratory muscles. In this case, the dart is the words and the powers could be the person tone of voice or manner in which it is used. Negative Self-talk can be the same type of weapon. The blowgun in just curved to aim back at yourself.
“…let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger.” (James 1:19)
- Producer09/12/2016Bullying at Social Networks: How to react?It is a fact: Bullies exist. No matter if they are in your social network, on your real life, at work, you name it. It can be very difficult to get rid of them and their effects in other circumstances, but in social networks, I would say is...
Comments11/12/2016 #30 Harvey Lloyd#29 This was a good comment. Being an old biker i can say that i have had many encounters across the country. Most were like your comment. But some were the stereotypical assumption that we were bullies. We met folks who invited us into their homes, farms and communities. We once decided to take the northern route back to the east coast through Montana and caught a small town parade. This route was off the beaten path from Sturgis, SD. What an experience. We were invited to all the festivities.
Sometimes bulling could be a fear reflex of perspective. We paint the picture of someone else because of our viewpoints.10/12/2016 #29 Robert CormackBullying takes a lot of negative energy. Those who like to bully never advance, nothing gets better. I remember one of my bosses telling me about a family picnic. He came from a big family. They were all out in the park, playing games, having a barbecue. Not far away, ten bikers were sitting on some picnic tables. They looked ominous the way bikers try to look. Anyway, my boss decided to go over and invite them to a tug-of-war. They accepted. There they were, ten bikers, all brawn and muscles, on one side, and my boss's family on the other, including his old blue-haired aunts. Well, the family won, and the bikers were invited to join in the barbecue. They had a good time, and were actually very appreciative. Bullies can change.10/12/2016 #28 Harvey LloydI have found this series of discussions surrounding one post, enterprising, in that it grew from a most fundamental element of the human existence. Yet the discussions have centered on bulling and i cant deny that these elements do exist but from my view is not the issue.
Using language such as negative, bully, and other terms to describe the macro of the topic eludes the basic understanding when we look at the individuals involved.
The spiritual aspects of our existence, those times where we find ourselves within inner turmoil. When it all seems upside down, we all reach for something. The discussion of bulling surrounds two different views of what we reach for in these times.
But the discussion also shows where we have come to when questions of faith are brought to the public. We all experience the fullness of or the lack of this in private, less we get labeled in public.
When two different beliefs of faith interact we have one of two options. Attack or share the experience from two different perspectives.
My faith is not in any need of defending nor could I. I may not agree with others but i do not require or wish to provoke the defense of others.10/12/2016 #27 AnonymousAs english is not my mother language, i make concept mistakes sometimes. Maybe the word ignoring, and ignorance can be a little confusing for me. Again, bullies are there. The bullfighter observes and anticipates its movements. The elegance of it consists in NOT forgetting they are there, but making the less effort possible to avoid them, same time as making them look ridiculous. In the other hand, this kind of bullfighting does not any harm to the animal. A good bullfigther does not need to harm the animal to show his superiority, which to me is the best to do it. Without any violence. In the end, a bully is a seriously handicapped person, who should get psicollogical help, and in some cases, life emprisonement in a mental institution.10/12/2016 #26 Lisa 🐝 Gallagher. I loved the bull fighter video and the music too! Most of the time it gets easier to ignore bullies. But, there are times we must speak out against the abuse they deliver. Some bullies on SM are transparent, others not so much. They may write an article that is not just dissing the person but the premise of their article too. Those who aren't aware of what may have transpired don't see these people as bullies- they play the 'innocent victim' card. I too, have been bullied many times on SM and that includes Twitter (in the past), LI, Facebook and some minor bullying on beBee. The difference- beBee does not tolerate it and will intervene. That is unheard of on other networks. Connections on beBee like yourself David and others are kind enough to call it out. We need more of this. Bullies don't win in the end if they are exposed and put on the back burner. I made a choice to try my best to stay away from bullies but it can't always be avoided.10/12/2016 #25 AnonymousA thoght is now teasing my mind. One can be bullied due to things one can hardly change (being tall, small, fat, blonde) and due things it depends on one' s personal choices (beliefs, politics, way of thinking) The question is which would be more painful? Which would be more difficult to defend? I am still ruminating further thoughts and questions about the issue.10/12/2016 #24 Brian McKenzie#22 i grew up short, below 5 feet for many of my teen years. Every year a new bully would pick on me due to height - the first few times I let it slide, thinking I could get help. Bullshit idiocy. Neither the teachers nor admin did shit - because it was just part of growing up. So the next time it happened, i put him down, broke his nose and dislocated his shoulder. If you bring it to my door - I will not roll over, I will not submit, I will not placate. The world is a shit place, the f*ck all if I will go quietly or peacefully.10/12/2016 #23 Deb 🐝 Helfrich#19 I thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing this part of your journey, @David Navarro López. We know nothing about what a person has been through or is dealing with currently from a few comments. That is perhaps why respect matters so much. It generates an atmosphere of tolerance. People feel supported. They can talk about topics that are crucial to the betterment of the world. Or share lighthearted fun. We move toward a brighter, more collaborative, sustainable tomorrow by listening to every one's voice.
I am grateful for the time you invested in writing this buzz and hosting this discussion.
I take your wise counsel and say "to hell with it" - I am ready to play with an open heart!10/12/2016 #22 Anonymous#21 No doubt this is the first thought many people would share. But then, what is the difference between them and us? That they are wrong and we are right? under the criteria of whom?
I respect your opinion but is not for me.
To act as a bully as a reaction to a bully makes me worse. Above all, bullies are not that clever. Otherwise, they wouldn't be one.10/12/2016 #19 Anonymous#13 To your words I can answer this. When I was in my childhood, in my country it was a felony not to be catholic. Many people went to jail. But my parents were very religious, although not catholic. Luckily for me, The dictator died when I was 9, and religious freedom was given. Nevertheless, I was bullied, prosecuted, and physically assaulted many times at school. The teachers were the ones that most fiercely bullied me, since they considered my attitude as a contaminant. When I was 18, I was supposed to do the military service. My convictions told me not to do so. This drove me to a military jail almost a year. During this time, almost daily I got the visit of the captain, who used any "technique" to break me. (not getting any food for days, not having the right to wash myself, and useless to say, brutality in words and acts) During the high school, my "sexual preferences" were questioned, as I hated soccer, and chosen to be in the library instead. My school mates were bad. Professors were worse.
So, if someone tells a lie about me, it simply makes me smile. If other people believes this lie, then they don't know me and judge me without knowing the truth, so I would say, thank you bully, because with your act I could really see who is and who is not worthy of my company.
The sea is full of fishes. Sorry if I don't pay attention to the rotten ones10/12/2016 #18 Anonymous#12 Probably I should have read more deeply about the issue. But as I have already said, I don't need it, as I am sure if someone like you had to respond, it had enough ground to do it. My point is, as you highlighted, not allowing them to put us down internally, not to play their game. An image comes to my mind automatically when I see a bully acting: the view of a half developed, handicapped human being, like a fetus born without the needful basic organs to have a quality life. While they think they are superior to me, I know I am superior to them, and then I act subsequently. In my response to @Robert Bacal you will understand how I learned to survive them.10/12/2016 #17 Franci🐝Eugenia HoffmanSince I have missed some posts while I was in Blue Ridge, it seems I am on the tail end of some inner turmoil. I read both of Deb's posts and found nothing offensive, but Deb, I find you can't please all the people all the time. I've been bullied (not on beBee), and after the fact, I can think of many ways I could have handled the situation. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, you know? I prefer to move on and brush it off or write a seething response and never send it. I was bullied on Google and responded "get a life" and I moved on.
If someone doesn't like another's post, then they don't need to read it and can move on. I still find posts relating to politics and I'm tired of the subject, so I move on to a post where I can enjoy a well-written, entertaining piece.
Bullying is child's play, IMO09/12/2016 #15 Deb 🐝 Helfrich#13 #14 Perhaps the exact people in the world who can help to lesson bullying through demonstrating kindness and concern for everyone upfront are the precise people who often feel tiny slights so much that they stop doing their own good.
Then bullying becomes a prominent fact and open-mindedness goes into hiding.
I practiced the contempt of not-noticing for over a year. I spoke directly to people I saw wronged without making it a public issue.
Now, precisely because of who I have demonstrated myself to be, I might have the ability to help other people wondering whether they were actually bullied, whether a particular instance warrants speaking up, and how best to go about it.
I am speaking about being a champion of tolerance so that we can move past this phase of the bullies having undue influence. Then they will wither away from neglect.09/12/2016 #13 Robert Bacal#11 @David Navarro, how would you honestly react if someone, in public, called you out as a snake oil salesperson try to rip people off?
Would you be able to not respond or have any emotional reaction whatsoever?
I think most people, regardless of whether the fight back or not, are going to experience SOME negative feelings about that, and that's the problem with bullying. It's the effect on one's private inner world, PLUS how public attacks create a toxic environment as in "If it could happen to this person, maybe I'll be next".09/12/2016 #12 Deb 🐝 Helfrich#11 "So we have to be aware not to become like them" That is unmistakably the true heart of the matter, @David Navarro López
I have nothing to say to the bullies.
I had to speak at this moment in order to not silence myself. That is my purpose. Because by not silencing myself, I may help another person speak their own truth. But if I remained silent I would have let resentment fester within me. I might have become more perfunctory in my interactions. I might have frequently questioned whether I would draw ridicule by speaking some of my unique truths. I would have stopped interacting with so much heart. I would have had to harden my heart in order to participate. I would feel worried over the reactions that would be offered to other members. So I spoke.
I see every word I have written as whispering to the soul of other actual or potential victims.09/12/2016 #11 Anonymous#9 To your words "...that drive new users away" I would say the following: Everyone here is adult. If someone goes because he/she can not put aside some idiots, and instead, to listen to other millions of positive users, well, let them go.
Furthermore, I believe Bebee left crystal clear what is expected from the behaviour of an Ambassador. If under your opinion you are acting like one, and Bebee considers you are doing it, I do not see the problem. Of course, we can not allow disrespectful behaviour. The thing is, how to react? And in this is why I wrote this buzz. The final point is that you are not going to change a bully, no matter what you do. So we have to be aware not to become like them. If due to your bigger intellectual power, you beat them, isn't that a form of bullying? How would you stop a fight? Beating harder?
Believe me, due to different reasons I am not exposing here now, I have suffered bullying along all my life. And still do. To fight back is never an answer, and makes you feel worse. To hell with them. We have other more important things to care about09/12/2016 #10 Anonymous#8 Above all, it is not a whim or a coincidence that in my profile it can be seen Don Quixote. Most of the time I feel like him.
Nevertheless, in an open site like this, as in real life, this kind of people might appear. We all know it. @Javier 🐝 beBee View more#8 Above all, it is not a whim or a coincidence that in my profile it can be seen Don Quixote. Most of the time I feel like him.
Nevertheless, in an open site like this, as in real life, this kind of people might appear. We all know it. @Javier 🐝 beBee knows it too. We, as ambassadors, can point out bad practices. and everyone has the possibility to claim to Bebee. But in the end, it is the decision of Bebee to allow them going on. In the mean time, the more we talk about them, the more relevance we give them. Instead, I bet for producing much more honey than "vinegar" Close
- Producer08/12/2016Socks, Open-mindedness, and Intolerance MaskedThis buzz is solely my personal opinion and represents a rebuttal to some members of this community. Please do exercise your right to click-away if you are uninterested in hearing about some masked discrimination that I recently experienced, as...
Comments12/12/2016 #79 Lada 🏡 PrkicI don’t know what the whole fuss is about. I read both articles and found the controversial buzz about snake oil by Don Kerr, with which I disagree although I admire the author. By the way, I think we should be able to speak bluntly and to indicate the article or the author to whom it refers. It's the fair thing to do.
I have a positive attitude towards holistic medicine because I was convinced in its effects at the example of my family. It is logical approach to the healing process that includes the whole person and not just the human body. But I can also understand the opposite opinions.
For example, my highly religious colleague is strongly against yoga. When she heard that I was intended to start doing yoga she tried to talk me out of it. She thinks about yoga as some kind of demonic activity. This is her attitude toward meditation, too.
Unlike her I grew up in an environment which has always been open to new ideas. That’s why I also believe that the ability to discuss any topic is how we grow and learn to be tolerant, the value greatly lacking in society.
@Deb 🐝 Helfrich, thanks for the post that broadens horizons.11/12/2016 #76 debasish majumdersnake have a fixed eye ball, which is a hindrance to them, in terms of catching their prey! on contrary, human have an eye ball, enabling them to keep a vision and even enable to widen their vistas! wonderful post @Deb 🐝 Helfrich View moresnake have a fixed eye ball, which is a hindrance to them, in terms of catching their prey! on contrary, human have an eye ball, enabling them to keep a vision and even enable to widen their vistas! wonderful post @Deb 🐝 Helfrich! ENJOYED READ MADAM. THANK YOU FOR THE SHARE. Close11/12/2016 #74 jesse kaellis#72
Time will tell, Robert. It will take intensive rehab and a recovery period of up to three months. The screws, the apparatus, needs to fuse with the bone. I had two surgeries. I fell shortly after the first one. A disaster. But there's this; I finally understand why people commit suicide over chronic pain. Physician-assisted suicide. At times the pain was extraordinary.10/12/2016 #67 Deb 🐝 Helfrich#61 You can call me any name you want, Pablo! I am certain I will either smile or laugh so hard my keyboard is in jeopardy of frizzing from the coffee spatter.
Bullies are not trolls. Bullies are taking a public place, marking their territory, and enforcing their arbitrary rules, often in the guise of doing what everyone else wants. Depending on the territory, as @David Navarro López so poignantly points out, we may simply not be able to have a meaningful effect on their activities. Religious, governmental bullies and anyone with weaponry needs to be avoided.
But a social media platform is the place for open, civil, and impactful discussions. I won't be shamed into silence.
I am drawing my own line in the sand for tolerance.10/12/2016 #66 Deb 🐝 Helfrich#59 #60 Absolutely anything can be said with respect, for instance - "I honestly have trouble regarding this as anything but snakeoil - am I missing something?" "Do you think this might be giving people false hope and be dangerous in the way we think of snakeoil?" Opinion stated in a way discussion can ensue.
I haven't the slightest problem with the basic challenging question. I object vehemently to the methodology used. Because as I titled this buzz - I believe it to be intolerance masked.10/12/2016 #64 Paul "Pablo" Croubalian#63 True, but sometimes I feel like being an ambassador is like having a target painted on your back. Some people think that we can't fight back. We shouldn't fight back. Or, we mustn't fight back.
Javier and Juan saw fit to make me an ambassador. It sure wasn't because of my pretty face. Unless. . . maybe they're Homer Simpson fans? Whatever the reason was, I didn't change what I do or how I do it on this or other platforms. I promoted beBee before, I continue to promote it now.
I'm not here to hold hands and sing Kumbaya either.
It's a social network, emphasis on the "social." It's easy for cowards to hide behind a keyboard. We need to accept the fact that it's impossible to please everyone.
I don't really give a rat's patootie what anyone else thinks an ambassador "should" do or "must" do. Javier and Juan selected us, they can unselect us.
Everybody else is entitled to their opinion, but it ain't worth much. No worries, as was said in another comment, "Haters gonna hate." I chalk it up to jealousy....
Let the flaming begin.10/12/2016 #61 Paul "Pablo" CroubalianI'll start my comment with some direct name calling. Deb, you Inspiration, you.
Frankly, it boggles my mind that anyone should take offense at what you wrote. While I'm not a fan of any holistic treatments, I respect the individual's right to choose.
I see little point in forcing my opinion down someone's throat.
On the larger issue of online bullying, there are several thoughts I would like to share. There is a common thought that one should not "feed the trolls." That's true for trolls. Not so much for bullies. You do not stop a bully by giving in or running away. Most are cowards at the core. Just don't show them they hit a nerve.
The worst type, and probably the one you allude to, disguises the bullying as a rebuttal or an expression of "difference of opinion." These posts are easy to recognize. They are full of semantically charged words. They draw "conclusions" from misinterpreted data. They claim their conjectures are "facts."
Some of these are simply taken badly. The written word lacks inflection, so misinterpretations are common. Some aren't. They are deliberate.
When a post or a comment pisses me off, I do two things. One, I reply immediately but in Word not directly. That helps me get the anger out of they way. Two, I wait a day and read it again. If it still pisses me off, I'll wait a little more.I once waited 10 days.
To the commenters who draw such ire: It is not enough that you hide behind "I have a right to express my opinion." So do they. Why does your right supersede theirs? It doesn't.
It is up to YOU to take all reasonable steps to avoid the impression of bullying. No, saying, "My opinion" or "No offense, but," doesn't cut it.
To authors: Don't leave. Thank the commenter for their comment. Say something like, "You are certainly entitled to your opinion, even if I don't share it. Thanks for the comment and have a great day." Then get on with your life. Is their opinion that important to you?
Don't sweat it.10/12/2016 #56 Deb 🐝 Helfrich#53 It is not a common occurrence, at all, as the vast, vast majority of people find beBee to be a refreshingly positive, supportive place to be. I work hard at adding that exact sort of value every day.
My own personal standard is that no one should experience 'name calling abuse' that causes them to leave beBee. In this case, it was the very subtlety of an indirect attack that I thought lent itself to a discussion that might bring about more awareness.
Interacting with tolerance is actual hard work on a global site based on open participation. We all have biases. We all have buttons that will get pushed.
This community is one where we celebrate the pause between a stimulus and a response, so that we may state our views with respect toward the person who holds the opposing view.10/12/2016 #55 Max🐝 J. Carter#53 I am happy for you that you have avoided this experience. I experienced at first and it was why I left for a while.
It was actions taken by the management team that convinced me to give it another shot.
While I have still experienced it, it has gotten much much better and that has a lot to do with the rest of the community also working to put an end to it.
- 21/11/2016Praise on one side, criticism on the other - two sides of the same judgment coin. Yet we crave one and decry the other.
Comments18/11/2016 #1 Deb🐝 LangeI agree learning how to share and be with people as equals is imperative today - our challenge is we have been taught how to comply to people who have had authority over us since we were young, then unconsciously we mirror that behaviour. Stepping into noticing and sending we can be different and create better relationships is critical.
- Advice is often the trojan horse of verbal abuse. More at http://conflict911.com The Conflict resource Center
- Why holding people accountable for nasty interactions online is so important. Silence breeds more verbal abuse. The Verbal abuse hive https://www.bebee.com/group/verbal-abuse-on-and-offline
- Judging should be a role not a compulsion. From the verbal abuse hive https://www.bebee.com/group/verbal-abuse-on-and-offline #17
Comments17/11/2016 #3 Deb 🐝 Helfrich#2 Well, I just ignored the bit I didn't agree with and focused on the part I did. Simple way to use praise as a method to draw the focus without shouting at you that you cannot lump the two methods together, which is what the judger-type would do.
We will disagree about praise - when given to draw attention to the cogent or unexpected or simply entertaining parts of a piece or comment, it works to help people hone in on what has been done well.
Just about everyone invests time in social media to meet a goal of some sort. I take that as my guiding principle. Putting the focus on the best part of what was written is how to help those I chose to help continue, or improve, or move inch by inch toward their goal.17/11/2016 #1 Deb 🐝 HelfrichNor has there even been, to my knowledge, any sort of manifesto saying that every thing written or shared on social media has to be critiqued.
Sometimes people simply want to be social. Friendly. Chatty. Share a smile. High five. If it is sooo important to a few to judge and offer criticism, when it has not been solicited, perhaps a new platform should be built for that sort of environment. Disruption in both senses....
- 06/11/2016A well written perspective on what I consider issues of identity.There is No 'Authentic Self'upliftconnect.com Is the misguided search for the 'true self' preventing you from embracing yourself as you...
Comments07/11/2016 #8 Sara Jacobovici#6 Nothing to apologize for @Katja Bader. Your English perfectly described your important contribution to this discussion. Thank you for your comment. Honesty is definitely a very important factor of authenticity and I like when you write: "Everybody has got his rootes, perception of life and his own expriences that influences his authentic self."06/11/2016 #6 Katja BaderSorry, my English isn`t so good and maybe I don´t understand everything of this post. But I think everybody can find and live his authentic self if he is realy honest with himself, his failings and forces. And if he is honest to others. Everybody has got his rootes, perception of life and his own expriences that influences his authentic self.06/11/2016 #5 Max🐝 J. CarterIt;s not often I read apiece that feels angry. There is so much left out that negates the argument being made that I am not even sure where to begin.
First we are more than a set of chemical responses, there is no acknowledgement of the energetic beings we are.
In simplest terms to bring forth one's true self it is simply first acknowledging the emotional response to any given thing and then understanding why one felt the way one did. This reveals who you truly are to you.
There are no technical steps outside of what I just said to get there.06/11/2016 #1 Sara JacoboviciI posted the following comment on the article: Derek Beres, all the power to you for taking on a complex topic and presenting a clear and insightful perspective. My only disagreement would come in the form of having a different “conceptual definition” of the term “authentic self”. I find that your article discusses issues of identity versus the idea of the authentic self. I define the authentic self as the “core” self, the one who decides “who” will be present at the meeting at work, the parents/teachers meeting, meeting with a friend for lunch, sitting down at the piano, easel, keyboard or any creative medium, and so on. The core self is consciously choosing what to sound like or look like given any situation or circumstance, basing the decision on what others expect of us or what we expect of ourselves.
- Producer05/11/2016How Many Of These Communication Fire Starters Do YOU Use Regularly?Communication that CREATES ConflictLearn to communicate effectively to reduce conflict Remove barriers to communication and reduce conflict. Check out the book, Conflict Prevention In The Workplace - Using Cooperative Communication A lot of the...
Comments05/11/2016 #1 Michele WilliamsI quote "Poor communication causes hurt feelings, anger, frustration, and tends to erode "Poor communication causes hurt feelings, anger, frustration, and tends to erode relationships, sometimes to the point where the relationship is not fixable." Important information. I think every one would benefit from a top 10 list on this topic and an infographic or maybe a series of posts. Thanks for sharing @Robert Bacal please tag me on related posts.
- Producer05/11/2016Eleven Things That Create Resistance And Anger In Others (Free Excerpts)Stop starting conflict by eliminating these eleven conflict habitsConflict In Your LifeEleven Things That Create Resistance And Anger In Others (Free Excerpts)Summary: By eliminating these eleven anger provoking behaviors from your repertoire you...
Comments06/11/2016 #7 Harvey Lloyd@Robert Bacal the challenges of communications in such a noisy environment requires many approaches to get heard. A positive agenda for an outcome can be met with a negative writing style. Media today, in all forms, realizes that negative/positive or emotional engagement through taking a stand or showing a sad puppy will introduce a polarized audience on either side. But it is engagement.
Offering engagement within a seeking or wisdom style is too flat and lacks the roller coaster ride typical engagement. I enjoy watching the circus of writers and delineating what their agenda may be within the writing. This is my agenda, as we all have one.
You list seems accurate but is also listing the exactly what engages folks. This is a sad truth but we can see it in politics, social settings and clearly online. It would appear that just experiencing the human dynamic is not enough we must have a agenda/side, engage it emotionally and polarize. This will be our ultimate understanding 100 years from now.
Call it social growing pains. What happens when everyone has a microphone?06/11/2016 #6 Aurorasa SimaGood list, Robert. Thanks for sharing!
I believe 6 and 7 often come in combination with the inability to let go of things. It´s amazing how even someone speaking the truth can become annoying from the unfortunate combination of 6, 7 and what I´d like to call 6a).
Lucky are those who have access to this list.06/11/2016 #5 Mohammed A. JawadOh, sometimes confused communication makes others crazy and it spews sheer conflicts. Imagine the harm done when a person feels feverish with thoughts and ideas and publishes it on the media, in haste. Nothing in proper sense, but all like random expressions stitched with silly words. A vile gossip, a pungent back-biting or wandering notions can blotch one's feelings. So, let's think, censor and re-think before we publish anything. Instead silence is better than hasty viewpoints.06/11/2016 #4 Lisa 🐝 GallagherI've learned to stay silent for quite some time now. I also learned it's OK to speak out against injustices if we are being attacked or see another being attacked. I will not attack the attacker or become like that of the attacker. I just wrote on @Franci🐝Eugenia Hoffman View moreI've learned to stay silent for quite some time now. I also learned it's OK to speak out against injustices if we are being attacked or see another being attacked. I will not attack the attacker or become like that of the attacker. I just wrote on @Franci🐝Eugenia Hoffman buzz that I'm learning a lot from those who've done this much longer than myself, beBee and it's team being such a great example. If I feel I may say something I could regret, I won't comment. I'm not here for controversy or to make enemies. There will always be a few who thrive on controversy, not sure why... maybe they are trying to draw more people in. Sort of reminds me of the negative stuff the media spews, people become addicted, it's like a soap opera and they keep coming back for more. Close
- Producer26/10/2016What Are Kids Learning From The 2016 USA Election Campaign, and What Parents and Teachers Can Do About ItWhat Are Kids Learning From The 2016 USA Election Campaign, and What Parents and Teachers Can Do About It By Robert BacalThe following appeared on the Building Bridges Between School and Parents Website. While it's about what our children may be...
Comments27/10/2016 #4 Praveen Raj Gullepalli#3 Yes Sirree! Avidly! You shd see the Trump memes floating around! There is always a lot of talk around the US elections...and foreign policy implications with neighbouring nations and the US Visa angle. You know how it is. Every Indian professional is considered incomplete unless he or she is US-returned (sadly that is happening less nowadays as folks go and never come back..brain drain). On an aside, Bill Clinton visited our facility (the place that i work at) many years ago when he was in power, along with the Chief Minister of our state. The sapling that he planted is now a tree. However, one cannot get high on its leaves! ;)26/10/2016 #1 Praveen Raj GullepalliDear Bob...being on this side of the planet I was taken aback a few evenings ago when my kids - son 14 and daughter 19 - brought up the election over dinner. I was shocked to find the elder a demo and the younger a repo. Taking sides. I was totally at a loss for words as much as America seems to be at a loss for choice. I let them argue for a while...and steered the conversation to the chicken curry in a hurry! ;) Wifey was pleased to have the table discuss her cooking. Cooking is her trump card and any way the conversation was far from being hillarious ;)
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Comments17/10/2016 #75 Joel Anderson#69 @Gerald Hecht As Captain Jack Sparrow might say: “The seas may be rough, but I am the Captain! No Matter how difficult, I will always prevail.” “The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?” On that theme, might I just add a Walt Whitman-ism , “Oh Captain! my Captain!--Arrgh…
https://www.bebee.com/producer/@joel-anderson/the-power-of-1-let-go-of-your-anger-legoya17/10/2016 #70 Donna-Luisa Eversley#68 @Gerald Hecht at some point , it may be realized you have enough negatives to be off balance...hence helping out with some good, to keep your negative flow in check..haha😀.. your bravery abounds, and your persistent courage is admirable. To stand up for your beliefs right or wrong indicates an individualistic mind and a sense of purpose. As we saw recently , you had a huge natural disaster challenge and you kept fighting...now you want me to help you with negatives...hmmm..lost on that 😀😀
- Producer11/10/2016Hive Talk Special - Featuring "Sanctuary" owned by Irene HackettA Sanctuary, where people go for peaceful tranquility, Well Being and WellnessThere is no excuse for Verbal Abuse On and OfflineWhat we need is Nature and Sustainability - ideas for a better worldhttps://www.bebee.com/group/sanctuary Sanctuary...
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