Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات · 2 دقائق وقت القراءة · ~10 ·

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Expanding the Intangibles

Expanding the Intangibles

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My quote in my previous post engaged few sharp minds. I wrote in my quote:

“We need to expand internally with *intentionality to see the world expanding and full of potential possibilities. We also live in the error that the heart has no capacity to see for itself, giving credit only to what our eyes see.”
Ali Anani

Joel Anderson highlighted that to expand is to grow, She extended her thoughts to the components of growth by writing “"intentionality" is a component of growth as is purposeful & determined attentiveness”.
… a desire to grow ;~) these are as petals on a flower called “Growth”
as "bee-editor in chief" ... I have acted: expanded & enriched your quote herein my "wind-mill of thought & inspiration". This coment was reinforced by
 then highlighted the value of intentionality in an earlier comment and a buzz. 

Expanding the capacity of an organization to grow entails “Organizational Capacity and Growth- Your organization will grow or wither based on the organizational system and your capacity to develop and sustain what works while eliminating what doesn't work”. To expand means enhancing the capacity of an individual or organization only if expansion is carried out with intentionality, purposeful attentiveness that make us do what is necessary and leave out what isn’t. 

Capacity for growth includes enhancing the ability of people to and teams to make collective decisions by self. This is in line with what Joel mentioned in his comment. It is not enough to expand; it is what to expand and in which direction. There are intangible factors that we need to expand and we should be aware of them such as attentiveness.

Beliefs may limit our capacities to expand. Inferiority complex is a horrible restricting factor for shrinking our capacities and make us unable to perform what otherwise we could do well if we weren’t restricted by inhibiting beliefs. This thought was highlighted by Harvey Lloyd in a recent exchange of messages between us. In another message Harvey highlighted the value of expanding the intangible belief force. He wrote "Human group dynamics are driven by the belief systems of the individuals within the group. A good leader knows this and attempts to develop a belief system around the goals of the company or goals”. Comparing the thoughts of Joel and Harvey it becomes clear that both gentlemen focus on expanding the intangibles.

In organizations increasing the capacity is determined by many interacting factors such as Education level, years of experience, research linkages, and perceived adequacy of resources and management plans are consistently significant capacity factors in explaining productivity in the agricultural sector. It is interesting that the intangible factor perceived adequacy was found to be significant in determining organizational capacity and expanding it to new levels.

We live in a world of increasing competition. Enhancing organizational capacities to compete is of paramount importance. Having a limited capacity will only lead an organization to bifurcate into different trajectories and soon enough find it immersed in complexity and chaos. Limited growth is beautifully explained in this reference. An interesting video that discusses capacities and tendencies to reach chaos is again beautifully described in this fantastic video:


And this video:


For an organization to be able to make predictions on future performance it has to expand its capacities without being attentive to the intangible factors that enhance these capacities greatly. Organizations will change if the employees believe in themselves and that the goals set out are achievable. Beliefs are crucial to expanding the capacities of organizations. The adaptive capacity of organizations was researched. The findings cast light on how the emotions, identities, values and goals of the individual affect not only their interpretation of climate change information but also the actual form that their adaptive (or maladaptive) behavior will take”.

We need to expand our “emotional capacities”.

No matter what form of capacity we are discussing such as competitive capacity, production capacity, emotional capacity or whatever capacity intangible factors have their say.


التعليقات

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #36

#37
Fay Vietmeier We are now seeing the issue eye-to-eye. The two separated sharp irond produce less effect each on its own than when allowed to sharpen each other. There is a synergistic effect.

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #35

Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee How very true Ali ~ as "iron-sharpens-iron" you often stretch my thinking capacity Not just mine ... but all the thinking "bees" who buzz about with you day by day ;~)

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #34

#35
As your mind and mine in separation is less than their sum when they interact my dear Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #33

#34
Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee Thank you my dear Professor ... I appreciate your further explanation. I am a "coachable cat" ... and you a patient "Herdsman" '~) I see and I agree ;~) "in successful organizations the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the individual capacities of the employees"

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #32

#30
Fay Vietmeier If I wrote " the sum of the whole is NOT greater than the sum of the individual capacities of the employees" it is a mistake because the result is greater than the sum of the parts. The whole is much greater than the mere summation of parts. Like human beings If we sum their parts together we don't have a human being. We are greater than the summation of our parts. It not not "NOT". In cars you assemble pieces and you have a car. Humans you assemble the parts that make a human and still you don't have a human because this is the characteristic of complex systems as humans are; cares are complicated, but not complex. I hope I explained my thoughts here to your satisfaction my friend.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #31

#29
Thank you for commenting and re-sharing the post dear Joel Anderson

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #30

#31
Fay Vietmeier The added lines are so sweet my friend. Your imagination is one of your definite strengths. The running water never visits the same place again. You expressed this so beautifully "SCULPTING lines that are born breaking, erupting & jutting". With such imagination no wonder that you are an established poet and songs writer.

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #29

Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee I sent the notice to you in the comments yesterday (I have not been getting comments either ... periodically I'll return to posts I've commented in and check that way ) These added lines were for you my dear Professor Oceans & seas have clearly defined shore lines “This far & no further” … the Great design Water meets rocks like a SONG ... in fractal fury ART is formed & ever changes SCULPTING lines that are born breaking, erupting & jutting When we are gone ... these GLORIOUS wonders remain & rearrange Thank you my dearest Professor for your sweet sharing of my "Lines"

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #28

Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee This was the comment prior to the "spiritual analogy" #20 @Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee (I added NOT) not sure if that what you indended? "Now, I add as an inspiration from your comment, that in successful organizations the sum of the whole is NOT greater than the sum of the individual capacities of the employees. What these employees bring in their suitcases determines the emerging capacity of their organization. Hence, enhancing the individual’s capacity spiritually, physically, emotionally and skills may result in enhancing greatly the capacity of the organization. I recognize this is somewhat idealistic ... having working in the staffing/employment industry for about 20 years I saw (even though that was a decade ago I do not believe that people or companies-organizations have changed that much ... if anything employers are more exacting of their expectations of employees and continue to NOT reward or offer incentives to those who ARE the performers-contributors) The "good-the bad and the ugly" in both companies & employees BOTH may have a wrong attitude of taking rather than contributing Wisdom & discernment is required No matter how much you sow into "enhancing" an employee ... the heart takes its own journey: ...what it loves ... what it values Will influence outcomes There is a wonderful book: Jesus, CEO using ancient wisdom for visionary leadership

Joel Anderson

منذ 4 سنوات #27

#1
My regrets for not getting to this sooner. Crazy busy.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #26

#24
Fay Vietmeier Do you mean those limes in your poem? Oceans & seas have clearly defined shore lines “This far & no further” … the Great Design Thank you for adding them I received no notification and so they passed my attention. As for your other comment 2) Not sure if you saw the comment proceeding the spiritual analogy No, I didn't read it and can't figure where you wrote this comment. Here? Then it passed my notice even though I read your comments attentively. Maybe because it is almost 1:00 here

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #25

#26
Fay Vietmeier It seems that I missed both. Let me check.

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #24

#25
Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee I am equally interested in what our most sagacious bee will see ;~) 2) Not sure if you saw the comment proceeding the spiritual analogy 3) Not sure if you saw my added lines for you on shorelines + a lovely pic to accompany ... I am a most "attentive bee"

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #23

#24
Dear Fay Vietmeier I shall wait first hoping to read the reply of dear Harvey Lloyd first to your "spiritual analogy".

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #22

#21
Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee Harvey Lloyd I’m going into the spiritual with your words Professor ... what adventure ;~) Reading your comment (#16) Ali reminded me of the early church: (Perfect description)The “Purposeful Goal” was to spread the Gospel 82 times “scattered” is the exact word used to accomplish God’s “purposeful goals” 4 times in the book of Acts (where begins the early church) this is one: “Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went.” Acts 8:4 (Phillip in Samaria) ... “scattering ... separation serves a Purposeful Goal” ... “people to go into different directions to explore (or in this example: spread the Gospel) but then their efforts must come into focus by going into a same direction (which at varying points & times in history the Church has done ... or attempted to do;~) ... Often that “expanding was dangerous ... and it “led to scattered efforts” (great "danger" for example: the stoning of Steven) ... “They still have the ability to move around and discover ... “The more I considered Christianity, the more I found that while it had established a rule and order, the chief aim of that order was to give room for good things to run wild. ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton Oh and the “strange Attractor” in this daring adventure is the Holy Spirit ;~)

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #21

#20
Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee (I added NOT) not sure if that what you indended? "Now, I add as an inspiration from your comment, that in successful organizations the sum of the whole is NOT greater than the sum of the individual capacities of the employees. What these employees bring in their suitcases determines the emerging capacity of their organization. Hence, enhancing the individual’s capacity spiritually, physically, emotionally and skills may result in enhancing greatly the capacity of the organization. I recognize this is somewhat idealistic ... having working in the staffing/employment industry for about 20 years I saw (even though that was a decade ago I do not believe that people or companies-organizations have changed that much ... if anything employers are more exacting of their expectations of employees and continue to NOT reward or offer incentives to those who ARE the performers-contributors) The "good-the bad and the ugly" in both companies & employees BOTH may have a wrong attitude of taking rather than contributing Wisdom & discernment is required No matter how much you sow into "enhancing" an employee ... the heart takes its own journey: ...what it loves ... what it values Will influence outcomes There is a wonderful book: Jesus, CEO using ancient wisdom for visionary leadership

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #20

#21
SO, with your vast experience and commanding comment you advocate passion as the main attraction for the herding cats to align and work as a team. Thank you dear Jerry for your valuable comments and sharing of experience. I read today on LI a post that calls for appreciation as a most influential force to engage employees. For me, appreciation falls under emotions, But your comment here offers more. I looked at the funnel that you discussed in your conference and I find appreciation right in the middle of the funnel. I have a quick question- as we consider employees as internal customers so I assume that what you say here is also extensible to the external customer. Do you agree?

Jerry Fletcher

منذ 4 سنوات #19

Dr. Ali, One of my clients who is identified as a leadership consultant has both an MBA and a thorough education in Psychology. Over the years he has developed methods for enhancing the profits of companies. Here is a part of a multi-page letter that will announce the upcoming workshops: "There is power in emotion shared within a group. That power can amp up results even for champions. You can use that power to tap into profit hidden in plain sight in your organization. This simple process is addictive, because it offers frequent satisfaction, real challenge, and the payoff of peer pressure and a team “win.” Nearly everyone has spaces, little bits of non-working time, in their day, most days. Those spaces aren’t laziness, they’re just the usual pace of work. Some of these spaces can be picked up by enthusiasm and applied toward a goal……if the person wants to do it. This system has shown that your people will use some of their spaces to hit the target, and the thrill of hitting the target overrides objections about working too hard. Engagement works. Independent research showed that 3-year sales grew 2.3 times as fast at firms with highly engaged employees vs. firms with average engaged employees. This system is based on 30 years of business growth consulting experience in the C-suite linked to my psychiatric training at the Menninger Clinic. You can install this process in your business in just a week or two in most cases Igniting passion is a matter of minutes a day. " And so it goes

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #18

#19
Fay Vietmeier Since re-reading your herding cats post I am busy thinking on how to turn chaos into order. In complexity words how to allow movement withing the boundaries of the strange attractor. So, your response here is valuable. You are a wise "herdwoman" and you have the piles of your drafts piling up. Now, consider each draft as a herding cat. How would you apply what you suggested here to your situation? A mi challenging you? Yes, I am because I know your juice of wisdom shall flow. I read a post by Jerry Fletcher yesterday: https://www.bebee.com/producer/@jerry-fletcher/consultant-marketing-brand-building In the post, Jerry presented the inverted sales pyramid that consists of the following: Know by increasing the awareness of your customer and the attraction of your offer Like by appreciating and respecting your customer Trust by enhancing your credibility and reliability to your customer I find that the same funnel may well summarize your great response here.

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #17

#19
Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee Before I forget my dear Professor thank you for sharing "Herding Cats & Wise Herdsmen" ... I am honored ;~) "What makes the magnetic power of a leader" ... I would call this person a “wise herdsmen” o Wise herdsmen are good guides. They possess the ability to “herd cats” … direct potential chaos into a productive process that brings people together and moves them in the right direction. o They are not self-seeking or self-serving o They edify: build-up rather than tear-down o They create a THINKING environment that fosters competency o They look to the good of their “herd” to develop opportunities that nurture creativity, contribution and growth. THIS is the KEY to GROWTH in an organization: Grow your people & you grow your organization (now the risk is that they may move on to "greener pastures" but that is another story o They are artful communicators of vision & strategy: an essential competency to inspire people to follow and motivate them to achieve. o They establish trust by being trustworthy (demonstrated by actions … not platitudes) o They walk the talk of their well-worded “mission statements” & corporate “values” We all know that words … without action … are meaningless.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #16

Ali Anani, PhD Congrats, your post has been trending in #creativity A warming up message fro LinkedIn. Thanks to all supportive readers.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #15

Dear Fay Vietmeier, Your comments reminded me of a post that I published sometime ago on "Better Focus or Not" https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ali-anani/better-to-focus-or-not Since reading your comments here I have been thinking about light that looks white, but diffracts into a rainbow with different color and each one has its own uses like ultraviolet light and infra red light.and each has its own application. Sometimes, scattering separation serves a Purposeful Goal. How do we achieve this? We need people to go into different directions to explore,but then their efforts must come into focus by going into a same direction. Even expanding maybe dangerous if it leads to scattered efforts. Look at the two embedded videos in the post and how expansion and bifurcation fall withing the boundaries of the fractal strange attractor. Expansion is achieved, but within limits. On the edge of this confined zone we call strange attractor creativity happens, self-organizing happens, emerging creative ideas shape up and fractals with their beauties are formed. So, what is the strange attractor for an organization that expansion should occur within its boundaries? I believe the answer is in having a Purposeful Goal that all employees move within. They still have the ability to move around and discover, but also are limited within the boundaries of this goal. SO many ideas are buzzing in my mind.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #14

#12
Fay Vietmeier Like Harvey Lloyd questioned the meaning of the word good such as a good employee and how we define what is good, I find the same applies to capacity and what attributes of capacity we should consider and what to leave out. Your comment here put me on a searching journey.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #13

#11
I read again your fantastic post on Herding Cats dear Fay Vietmeier and I enjoyed reading it more than before and so re-shared it. It is a great post. Yes, herding cats may go all in different directions and each work for itself. But with willingness to be coach-able and a good leader same cats may streamline. They may work as many in one. This post of yours are in complete line with my thoughts here. It amazes me how we may reach the same conclusion coming from different approaches.I mean our approaches seem to be like herding cats, but with leading thinking they align. Scattered magnetic lines (I may phrase them as herding magnetic lines" lose their magnetic power. If placed in a magnetic field they align. The leader is the magnetic field that brings herding agenda of employees into his magnetic power. Now, what makes the magnetic power of a leader is another story.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #12

#10
Fay Vietmeier My mentor- your suitcase is filed wit spirituality and I add my voice to yours "True transformation is of the whole person includes spiritual and that is Divine & supernatural (this produces whole-heartedness". Yes, these powers play a significant role n enhancing our and organizational capacity. In an exchange of comments with our good friend Harvey Lloyd led me to think that we keep saying that in complex systems such as human organizations the whole maybe greater than the sum of the parts. Now, I add as an inspiration from your comment, that in successful organizations the sum of of the whole is greater than the sum of the individual capacities of the employees. What these employees bring in their suitcases determines the emerging capacity of their organization. Hence, enhancing the individual;s capacity spiritually, physically, emotionally and skills may result in enhancing greatly the capacity of the organization. Maybe I write a post on this issue.

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #11

Cyndi wilkins Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee "We all like to feel valued and appreciated for what we do and how we feel...Learning to access our own intuition is a great strategy for all of us...not to mention for those at the.executive level. It helps us to make timely decisions in difficult situations if we are clear headed and hearted with our own thoughts, feelings and intentions before entering the 'game'... "Clear headed & clear hearted" ... I love this thinking ;~) Your words reveal that you are a most "sagacious bee" Cyndi ;~) It has been said that the distance between the heart and the head is about 18 inches Now getting the heart and the head to connect ... and collaborate ... might make that distance seem from the earth to the moon (so far removed can they be) It is written that we are “fearfully & wonderfully made” ... this far exceeds the physical although that in itself is wondrous The intangibles that are not visible like “intuition” do reside in the heart & spirit (mine do ;~) ... I agree with you Ali And “thinking by the head all the time IS stressing” This should be cultivated: “Relaxing minds by the use of our hearts” (I agree) is surely fruitful. NOT doing this is a “loss of capacity”

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #10

Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee Very rich insight my dear Professor: Serving self-interest and the goal simultaneously is going in opposite directions at the same time! This reminds me of “Herding Cats” One of the challenges ... one of the true tests of a good leader is the ability to bring a team of intelligent … often highly opinionated people together to accomplish goals & objectives. Finding unanimity & getting consensus … brings to mind the non-harmonious picture of “herding cats” … difficult … seemingly uncontrollable … and at times chaotic ;~) Getting your team to care … collaborate & cooperate may seem exactly like “herding cats.” https://www.bebee.com/producer/@fay-vietmeier-pennsylvania/herding-cats-wise-herdsmen-coaching-collaborating-and-compromising-for-consensus-202453 Good leaders & managers: create a THINKING environment that fosters competency Coachable cats: “Coach-able cats” are teachable: o They are in possession of a willing attitude … this is KEY- willingness is the essential quality that makes one teachable … it paves the way to learn & grow. This quality transfers to how we interact in our relationships: at work and at home … Will I will? Or will I won’t? o They are able to listen … and hear o They are able to see … and perceive (get the bigger picture-understand the goal) ... Listening & perception are core competencies … which lend to emotional intelligence ...

Fay Vietmeier

منذ 4 سنوات #9

#4
Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee Great title for this post Professor I may have shared previously that I worked 18 years in the staffing industry both as a branch & regional manager/My role was business development but to help the businesses I worked with find the “right” candidates... I had to understand the organizational processes & more importantly their challenges There are a great many “intangibles” in the workplace Being unseen makes them all the harder to identify and manage Many challenges are universal This one for sure: There are no perfect people and no perfect company’s: When a person goes to work ... everything in their “suitcase” goes with them: anything & everything that is going on in their life ... which might include struggles in their personal & home life (these are internal & or external) Such factors (internal & external) impact performance Performance is internal Management is external “To transform an organization you have to also transform the people in it.” ~Fay All transformation requires recognition, cooperation and TIME True transformation is of the whole person includes spiritual and that is Divine & supernatural (this produces whole-heartedness) An organization or company can put into place quality standards & quality processes and those at the very least improve outcomes (some Quality processes can bring noticeable and more lasting “transformation" like Malcolm Baldrige but that is a huge commitment of time & resources and outcomes are always determined by the people participating ... and everything in their "SUIT Cases" All quality standards & processes are only as good as the people who design ... implement and monitor them

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #8

No wonder that a lady with a heart writes such a beautiful comment. Thank you Franci\ud83d\udc1dEugenia Hoffman, beBee Brand Ambassador in her comment #6. Thank you also for your re-sharing the post, Franci.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #7

#6
Cyndi wilkins I am having a problem with the internet and I hope to be able to post my reply. You too Cyndi "caught my attention out of the gate" with this "True...We are taught to ignore our heart and think with our head...When the truth lies somewhere 'in between'. You bring a hugely-important thought in that we need to bring our heart and our head close to overlap. In the sweet zone of overlapping creative ideas initiate. To have the head and the heart far apart means putting them into conflict. This results in disasters. I like that you mentioned intuition in this manner ".Learning to access our own intuition is a great strategy for all of us...not to mention for those at the.executive level". You make me wonder if intuition is heart-originated and I believe this is the case. Thinking by the head all the time is stressing. Relaxing minds by the use of our hearts is surely fruitful. I believe your comment is a great seed for a lovely post by you.

Cyndi wilkins

منذ 4 سنوات #6

You caught my attention right out of the gate with this Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee “We need to expand internally with *intentionality to see the world expanding and full of potential possibilities. We also live in the error that the heart has no capacity to see for itself, giving credit only to what our eyes see.” True...We are taught to ignore our heart and think with our head...When the truth lies somewhere 'in between' Tapping our intuition is a very deep wellspring of possibilities...To do this effectively..."We need to expand our “emotional capacities”...moving us beyond the need for external validation. But how do we validate one's emotions...including our own? By 'listening' intently to the external dialogue of another and internal dialogue of ourselves. Keeping eye contact with someone you are engaged with is the best way of assuring them that they are being heard. Even if the feelings create discomfort for you both, maintaining a position of calm focus while being 'present' in the conversation yields the best results. Turning away or abruptly changing the subject is a sure fire way of breaking the connection...which in turn creates a sense of devaluation for one's concerns We all like to feel valued and appreciated for what we do and how we feel...Learning to access our own intuition is a great strategy for all of us...not to mention for those at the.executive level. It helps us to make timely decisions in difficult situations if we are clear headed and hearted with our own thoughts, feelings and intentions before entering the 'game'...

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #5

#3
Serving self-interest and the goal simultaneously is going in opposite directions at the same time! Yes, a leader must explain the goals and the need to change beliefs if they are in contradiction with the goal.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #4

#2
I truly enjoyed your expanding and expansive comment. You remind me of the trees bending to the bend so that they mayn't break. Bending has a purpose to serve as you highlighted in your comment with the example flowers bending towards the sun. If bending is influenced by their own interest and not the goal interest then actually the "flower"is bending away and not towards the sun. Yes, leaders may think they are bending to the goal when they are bending towards the self-interest. This is a key point Harvey Lloyd and I am glad you highlighted it in your worthy comment.

Harvey Lloyd

منذ 4 سنوات #3

The belief system part applies when the team member senses the goal is counter productive to their own beliefs. These beliefs could include self preservation, outcomes for others or even customer satisfaction issues from their perspective. A good leader can flush these beliefs out and learn, or help the individual gain a different perspective. Left unattended the team could find itself working around a belief system that is merely a misconception by one individual.

Harvey Lloyd

منذ 4 سنوات #2

Really enjoyed the piece. You touch on the intangibles in a very definitive way that makes sense. I would only add that when we discuss belief systems we are really talking about the human paradigm and not always the goal itself. Who am i if we achieve the goal? Is the question we all ask at some level. The question sets up, in more cases than we would like to admit, a competition within ourselves. This competition spills over into the team and ultimately the goal achievement process. Clearly with this internal competition running, the skill sets become dull and in some cases non compliant with good team efforts. The leader can recognize this when they see the bending of thought towards an individual as opposed towards the goal. Much like a flower will bend towards the sun. The bending is not always a bad thing. But leaders should understand how the bending is impacting the goal itself.

Ali Anani

منذ 4 سنوات #1

Joel Anderson- you are mentioned in the post in this order.

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