Simple Questions with Difficult Answers
Let me start with a family story. It is about my daughter Satanieh. This is most likely unknown name to you. You start thinking with wonderment what it means. Your thoughts will have to crystallize out before you may describe how you feel about the name. If I tell you that the name means princess then you may have thoughts and expectations on the meaning of the name. This time you shall be encouraged to express your thoughts that Satanieh means a beautiful girl. If still interested, this reference gives the meanings of Satanieh.
Stretching the thoughts to Satanieh childhood opens new windows of thoughts. Satanieh had an amazing childhood as she could walk when she was only seven months old. Even before that she surprised us with uttering words while dancing. We couldn’t understand what she was saying. Few days later Satanieh was speaking more clearly. She was vibrating with the words of a song that her grandmother used to sing for her frequently. She must have thought that the singing of her mother coupled with her happy expressions meant that her grandmother was singing a song of love towards her. Her thoughts preceded her words.
My mind got engaged with a simple question, but its answer proved difficult. Which comes first words or thoughts? This resulted from my previous buzz in which I quoted Gandhi who mentioned that words come first. On the shared buzz on LI Magdalena-Maria GROSU wrote a comment that blew my head. In her comment she wrote “Sometimes words are even before thoughts and even more powerful than thoughts, due especially to the fact that we share them easier than thoughts... :–) Every time you say a Word there is an intention behind it which acts as a catalyst towards the response which you receive from the universe. Just like thoughts, words too formulate a conjuncture of high and low vibrations”.
Which comes first words or thoughts? My daughters’ story says it is thoughts. Magdalena says sometimes words and others thoughts. Gandhi says it is thoughts first. I started my search and was surprised how such simple questions generate so many different views. For example, Spelke and Susan Hespos, a psychologist at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tenn., did some clever experiments to show that the idea of tight/loose fitting comes before the words that are used/not used to describe it. When babies see something new, they will look at it until they get bored. Similar views were expressed on Quora in which one comment expressed the view that “Thoughts are an array of ideas. It results due to thinking. They say 'Think before you speak'. That’s a false statement of sort. One never speaks without thinking. We all speak only when we have thoughts or think.
Piaget is also of the idea that thoughts precede language. However; there appeared researches that refute his idea. One example is Vygotsky, who advocated that thought and language are interdependent processes, from the beginning of life. The acquisition of language by the child modifies its higher mental functions: it gives a definite shape to thought, enables the emergence of imagination, the memory usage and the action planning. In this sense, language, unlike what Piaget postulates, systematizes the direct experience of children and therefore acquires a central role in cognitive development, reorganizing processes that are ongoing.
The question may be formulated differently. One example is the publication “Are we slaves to our language and does it shape our thoughts, or can we claim that our thoughts determine the way we speak”? . If language had come first, humanity would have hardly ever been able to invent new things and create new words by which to refer to them, because we would have been unable to perceive the new concepts. If our thoughts were limited by the language we speak, we would never have all the myriad languages that currently exist.
There are many more literature citations with support for both views that language comes before thoughts and others supporting the reverse order. For brevity, I shall stop here with the hope that you share your experiences and help us crack this issue.
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التعليقات
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #46
A very thoughtful comment Roberto De la Cruz Utria. I love your logic. I myself too tend to say that thoughts comes first and shape our words.
Liesbeth Leysen, MSc.
منذ 5 سنوات #45
my pleasure Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #44
Thank you . I love your thinking and how you express it in words. Thank you also for sharing the buzz.
Liesbeth Leysen, MSc.
منذ 5 سنوات #43
Liesbeth Leysen, MSc.
منذ 5 سنوات #42
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #41
To play on words purposefully is the hard question to ask James Olcott
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #40
Agree with you and your perspective my friend mohammed khalaf
mohammed khalaf
منذ 5 سنوات #39
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #38
Facial expressions are also a form of expression and revealing feelings inside. So, this way I tend to agree with you that thoughts precede language. A newly-born starts life crying and again is is a way of expressing feelings and thoughts . I agree with you my friend Franci\ud83d\udc1dEugenia Hoffman, beBee Brand Ambassador
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #37
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #36
Thank you Federico \ud83d\udc1d \u00c1lvarez San Mart\u00edn
🐝 Fatima G. Williams
منذ 5 سنوات #35
I am using my Chrome browser on my mobile to access bebee :)
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #34
Actions like sharing and commenting . No, I am on my desktop. Thank you
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #33
I forgot to mention too that are are still some obvious anomalies. For example, I have on the home page of this buzz the following info: In Professions, Workers, Careers and 1 more hive 2 h However; the buzz actually has been shared 9 times. I fail therefore to acknowledge those readers who shared it. This issue has been repeating lately. The shares reads correctly for two days and then something wrong goes.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #32
Not at all dear . I appreciate your gratitude to commenters. At least I know what is happening. Thank you again.
🐝 Fatima G. Williams
منذ 5 سنوات #31
Dear Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee I guess me liking all the comments on this post may have triggered that :) Sorry if that caused any inconvenience :)
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #30
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #29
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #28
No wonder in English patient has two meanings- with patience we conquer our illness. Thank you Edward and I enjoyed immensely reading your buzz. I left a longer comment there.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #27
I agree in full with your comment Joyce \ud83d\udc1d Bowen Brand Ambassador @ beBee. It amazes me that some people have meaningful names and still dislike them. Yes, your classification of verbal and abstract processes is also meaningful.
Joyce 🐝 Bowen Brand Ambassador @ beBee
منذ 5 سنوات #26
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #25
I am mesmerized by your comments. I feel the urge to build on this comments and the analogous precious ones. Digital camera versus analog camera and to relate this to your glorifying comments here. I am really urged to do so.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #24
I dont believe we need wonder as we are seeing what digital does to illusion Illusion is where learn and experience syncretic thoughts of what could be. In a digital world we must declare what is and write the code to deal with outcomes. A fuzzy analog picture offers many to move the rabbit ear antenna to get a better picture. Unlike digital where it is what it is and can’t be adjusted by the end user
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #23
Your response is amazing. Our brains are analogs, but we live in digital times. This is a paradox that we need to resolve. Are we better of to swing between the two? The analog brain has its limitations when it forms a perspective based on illusions. Digital brains quickly stagnate and die. How can we use our brain analogs in a digital world. May be this is what causing education to fall short and we witness the new generations and how their mode of thinking differs from us. As you wrote "These thoughts indicate the need for child development in trust and love to establish that bedrock where the analog brain can test and build itself as change occurs". With so many distractions of parents from paying enough attention to their children the analog mind is shrinking and the tendency to use the digital brain is increasing. I wonder what will happen next!
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #22
Your question is a great one. If i could view your question from an analog vs digital perspective. Our brain is analog. It displays the picture of the world in action with the confidence of 100% accuracy. Until the brain understands that maybe it it is missing some pieces. This is usually discovered through words. Unfortunately we are now looking at the brain as digital. In our communications we see each other as bad code in lieu of a brain testing analog theories in public. If any person reviews themselves critically within the past 5 years they would find that not only have they changed but old opinions were juvenile. Many illusions dont make the journey forward. This is the natural progression of our analog brain. We must sense that we know everything we need to know to move forward. Doesn’t mean we do. A world of digital brains operating would quickly stagnate and die because no faith would ever exist. Without all the information we could never form a “acuarate” view. The dimensions of time will always pressurize our digital thoughts into analog action. These thoughts indicate the need for child development in trust and love to establsih that bedrock where the analog brain can test and build itself as change occurs.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #21
SO glad to read your comments again Harvey Lloyd. Your absence was strongly felt. Your comment is a starry one. It entertains the mind. I love the idea that trust and love allow for our thoughts to expand. Likewise; mistrust and fear/hate and grudge make our thoughts shrink. The more our thoughts expand, the more we search for words to express them in public. This is true. The roots of our behaviors are grown from our babyhood. I paused for a minute while reading your lines "For me thoughts come first. Specifically as the the thoughts are a gathering of sensory data into a schema of self". I refer here to visual illusions when we see things different from what they are in reality and how they would change our thoughts.I aim to tackle this issue soon. Do illusions change our thoughts and how? Sometimes reality isn't what we see by the naked eye.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #20
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #19
Great questions John Rylance. I recall drawing one of my dreams on a slip of paper before sleeping again. Sometimes I show my thoughts pictorially and others in words. SO, I don't know if I am an artist or author.
John Rylance
منذ 5 سنوات #18
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #17
You are a determined man with a heart of gold my friend Tausif Mundrawala. I do appreciate your words and I am blessed to be connected with people of your caliber.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #16
+As you notice from the great discussions dear Tausif Mundrawala is that I am unable to give a firm answer to a simple question. Let me explain by a recent example. The word fractal was coined less than forty years ago. No one thought of them until Mandelbrot noticed them from the history of cotton prices. SO, both the thought and the word fractal were not in existence. Having seen the fractal pattern the thought led to the coining of the word fractal. I believe here the thought came before the word. There are cases in which the reverse is true. Again, I thank you and I am getting more curious because of the great comments here such as yours.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #15
I believe the comments of this buzz on LinkedIn addresses your comment very favorably my dear . Again I refer to one of the comments of Magdalena-Maria GROSU in which she wrote similar ideas.She wrote "Shakespeare said that a rose smells as sweet, no matter what one calls it. But interestingly enough Shakespeare was wrong. There's quite a bit of evidence that if you blindfold people and ask them to smell an aroma, what you call that aroma has a big effect on how pleasant they find it. If you call it a rose, they’ll probably like it. If you just call it a flower, they’ll like it, but maybe not as much. If you just call it a plant, even less so. And so on. Often the way we describe things affects how we encode the memories of them. When we remember passively-described events, we're much less good at remembering who was responsible. And people whose language prefers reflexive verbs are less likely to recall the responsible parties. Nearly everyone who is multilingual talks about languages changing the way they think. Each language is another personality". What do you think of this comment?
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #14
Zacharias \ud83d\udc1d Voulgaris- very interesting comment. In a way your comment reminds me of the extended dialogue of this buzz on LinkedIn, and in particular the comments of Magdalena-Maria GROSU. In one of her comments she wrote "Each language has its own distinctive way of expressing ideas. Varying grammar structures force the speaker to rethink how they emphasis certain ideas, and words can have different etymologies which, even if only on a subconscious level, affects the associations you have with them. As a result, an important part of language learning is embracing these personality changes and being comfortable with them. In general people who are ‘fluent’ in a language are generally those that don’t shy away from this. If they adopt the mannerisms and mentality of a speaker of a different language, their delivery improves, along with their grammar, pronunciation, and of course confidence". I hope you find in this comment a timely response to your eloquent comment.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #13
Thank you dear Tausif Mundrawala would respond to your comment. May be if we consider thoughts are sequence of sentences and words form sentences then we would say words come first. I am not less puzzled than you are.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #12
Thank you John Rylance and I enjoyed your thinking that we You can't have words without thoughts. This is a new thinking. I reviewed the literature and I could write a book on opposing ideas that say either thoughts come before words and the reverse order. None mentioned to my best knowledge that they are part and parcel. So, this is a fresh thinking.
🐝 Fatima G. Williams
منذ 5 سنوات #11
Zacharias 🐝 Voulgaris
منذ 5 سنوات #10
John Rylance
منذ 5 سنوات #9
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #8
This is an intriguing comment dear Debasish Majumder. Yes, several factors shape up our thinking modes. However; a second question arises in my head. When we say does thinking come before words is it then true regardless of the mode of thinking a person has? For example, does a strategic thinker differ from an analytical thinker? Does an extrovert behave the same way like an introvert? Is thoughts-words relationship the same for these people? Truly, you make me think deeper.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #7
I do thank you for a very clear and concise response Gert Scholtz. You are spot on to write "Such thoughts may or may not be distilled into a medium of communication which is language". I tend to say the same and that we form a concept as children, even though vague ones, before we may communicate them. You reinforce my convention.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #6
My response posted prematurely. I wanted to say This time your analogy is super. Our bodies are transducers of emotions, words, body movements and the transducer transform them into understanding. You remind me of optical illusions and how we all receive the same information, yet our transducers explain them differently. Great thoughts here. You make me think deeply and I thank you Bill King
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #5
I always enjoy your scientific analogies Bill King.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #4
Jerry your question is valid. Same I experienced as a grown up during my first trip to a country- Turkey. I couldn't then speak one Turkish word. I walked in a restaurant and the waiter couldn't understand English or my native language. I drew chicken for him and he understood. May be we need first thoughts to communicate.
Debasish Majumder
منذ 5 سنوات #3
Gert Scholtz
منذ 5 سنوات #2
Jerry Fletcher
منذ 5 سنوات #1