The Paradox of Love
The title is a simple one for a complex issue. The paradox of love is a form of nested paradoxes. A comment by CityVP Manjit on my previous buzz. In his comment he wrote “Extreme love is great but only a few people are capable of extreme love for the rest of us we mostly live in the fear of love. You have just featured the link to Lisa Vanderburg and Lisa is a good example of someone who epitomizes extreme love. Extreme love is the testing limit whether it is love or an illusion of love”. When we go to the extreme we get away from the balancing point and this could lead to consequences.
The Journey Map of Love
Love has a journey. I try to sketch out this journey in the following illustration and how love progresses with time.
The longer we own something, the dearer it becomes and the more intense the feelings we develop we own it. It is like somebody rents a house from you and he stay in that house for long years he shall then feel the ownership of the house. This is a bifurcation point. When we love somebody to the extreme extent that we feel ownership of the beloved. We tend to protect and/or control the beloved one. The latter will soon realize he lover is trying to control/protect her/him and shall resist this tendency. This situation develops into two paradoxes: the paradox of controlling and the paradox of protecting. The lever to get more control he/she should lessen his/her control. Same is the situation with protection. If the lover fails to accept these paradoxes he/she shall tend to become more controlling and protecting. This leads to resentment from the beloved one and starts distancing herself/himself from the lover. The lover feels he/she is losing his/her beloved one. Very often this result into intense feeling of a great loss and may turn into revenge. What started as love ends in revenge leading to killing the beloved one.
When we go to the extreme we produce paradoxes that lead us to live chaotic lives. When we live in the “extreme love” we allow excessiveness control and protect our lives. We then suffer from the paradox of living chaotic and paradoxical lives. Because we reach a chaotic state of love we produce more of the chaotic emotions such as extreme jealousy. Our possessiveness annoys the beloved ones and we create more of chaos and we get used to living in chaos.
This isn’t different from a person seeking freedom and starts his private business only to become a slave to the business that was supposed to give him the freedom. Excess by going to the extreme shall produce the ill-effects that we tried to escape from.
Love turns into hatred as a recent story of a university student who threatened to publish his beloved one’s photos if he didn’t get money from her to compensate him for his lost love.
Antifragility is getting stronger after a chaotic experience. Likewise; I coined the term “antilove”, which is the opposite of love. It is love that make us weaker and more fragile post to the end of love.
Ali Anani
I see paradoxes resulting from extreme love as the dragons of love that we need to bypass to be stronger and make our love stronger. I am using the term dragon from the inspiration of the comments shared on my previous buzz by Harvey Lloyd. Harvey said in one of his comments “I would say in this context we curl up in response. Yes, dragons beget dragons”. True, as dragons of excessive control and protection turn into dragons of revenge, hatred, excessive jealousy and there after ill-effects.
Do you believe in excessive, or extreme love?
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التعليقات
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #143
OK, and I love you Clau Valerio. I hope this love would inspire you
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #142
Clau Valerio- thank you dear friend for sharing the buzz and writing a comprehensive comment. You explained obsessive love disorder very well and I agree completely with your comment. Thank you also for reminding me of one of my buzzes that is close to my heart.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #141
Surely this helps Roberto De la Cruz Utria
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #140
Correct, as when we find self-order in chaos we have put ourselves in a higher level. A level enriched by previous learning. Yes, it is an order of higher level than the order we were in before.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #139
Expanding on that concept i would suggest that growth and the impending chaos has a structure of engagement. This is somewhat discussed under the guise of change management. I would further submit the order within chaos is the structure of engagement not necessarily the order we were within before we started.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #138
You are talking about order that is always embedded in chaos. Yes, with constructive love we may find the order in the chaos of growth. I agree with your comment and welcome its depth. In fact, it is interesting that you mention growth and chaos. When growth becomes exponential because of feedback it is bound to take us into chaos. This is the tax on growth. However; we know there is always order in chaos as there is chaos in order. It is on the edge of chaos (before getting immersed in it) that we self-organize into better humans. That is the real challenge.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #137
#151 I remember many years ago when i first heard of the chaos theory and the various aspects of its nature. I spent many of those years avoiding chaos as it was thought to be a negative existence. I have found though that chaos is the result of moving outside of order because of need or growth. Chaos should always have a stated purpose. We have natural chaos that is a function of time that we have no control over. But the chaos of growth and understanding is one of purpose. Today though we seem to see a lot of chaos that is without purpose other than to destroy certain ideals. You cant kill an ideal without killing the person. You can only stir the chaos around the ideal and bring it to null. This is self destructive as when everything becomes null and the social level folks no longer seek the healthy chaos of growth. Its not worth the risk of becoming null. The basis of love within the context of social professional, is the bridge it builds to carry us through the chaos of growth. The foundation of love gets fractured when chaos has no purpose but to destroy. For those who can isolate themselves in small business and create this atmosphere of growth, the bridge of understanding chaos, takes on new meaning. Chaos should always reflect the purpose that caused us to move from order into this challenging position.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #136
You are most welcome to the discussions dear Milos Djukic. Do I agree with you? Unfortunately yes because when we differ our conversation extends respectfully and I learn from you. After chaos two possibilities occur either the system creatively organizes to a new structure that is antifragile, or the system blows out and disintegrates. Yes, with passionate love we may appear stronger. Your comment brings many stories back in my mind. One story is that of Casablanca movie. Towards the end when the hero faces the conflict of love between his love to the girl he lost and then reunited with and his love for his country. He opted for the bigger issue- his country. Love brings faith and doctrine to our life and that is a kind of self-organizing. But it is also the same love that made many people commit suicide after losing their beloved ones. Or, killing the girls they loved because they, for one reason or another, they opted to part company and get married to other men under oppression. This is chaos and love that ends this way is chaotic beyond chaos.
Milos Djukic
منذ 5 سنوات #135
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #134
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #133
Dear Proma \ud83d\udc1d Nautiyal- your comment is so well-thought and summarizes beautifully what I intended to say in this buzz. Your comment speaks to my heart and mind. Yes, when we go to the extreme we develop the feelings of ownership as if we own the beloved one. Ownership means holding to the person, restricting his/her movement and applying our rules on the beloved ones without noticing that we over do it. Yes, we tend to make them an extension of ourselves and this is the beginning of "love distortion".
Proma Nautiyal
منذ 5 سنوات #132
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #131
I shall not dwell at length discussing meaning of words. Extreme love is a term that you used first and upon checking Google I found it is popular. Now, one might say it is a relative term. OK, but still we we see its effects. When two lovers isolate themselves and restrict their world to being together they curl up in a small world. We become prisoners for love that is supposed to free us and expand our world and not diminish it. The same is extensible to your other examples of extreme engagement. In brevity, going to the extreme is a form of exaggeration that I find restrictive in the long run.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #130
You reminded me of the thought-provoking book of our friend Edward Lewellen "The 90- second mind manager". I wrote the forward for this book and it still occupies my mind. In his book ED discusses exactly your challenge "Having lived for a certain individual it is meaning that is the vacuum. Now the challenge is, is there anyway of finding greater meaning that will fill that massive hole where the vortex of love spun". Yes, I agree with your comment and post great sadness weneed to remember the virtues if good people to relieve us.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #129
Dear Lisa Vanderburg- you said that "I am not whole, I am halved by my own being". Just remember that we may only enjoy the juice of lemon and orange if they are halved. If we try to squeeze a whole lemon then we get no juice. Your juice of humanity and care is as sweet as you are.
CityVP Manjit
منذ 5 سنوات #128
The word "extreme" is loaded but we should question why it should trigger our associations with the extremists, with addiction or insanity when all it is in the context of love here is love that operates in a rare atmosphere. No love is not a sport, but we are OK with terms like "Extreme Sports", and the chief linkage between Extreme Sports and Extreme Love is the very subject that knits and links all the conversations happening here, which is paradox. Whatever we think of extreme sports, when we read attempts to explain it, we will trigger many reactions that do not bring us to the heart of why human beings are capable of reaching the maximum involvement. In this explanation of http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2014/12/04/personality-traits-extreme-adventurers/#.W3tYXbgpCM8 notice how many different explanations there can be to "explain" why Extreme Sports exist - yet in this article you will see the very same thing you see in these threads - paradox, paradox, paradox. For me since I have never experienced extreme sports, it is beyond a paradox, it is an enigma. That is the ratified atmosphere that we do not get to experience. Sometimes those things that are too alien for us because they don't fit for neat explanations or reasoning, simply need to eradicate reason and substitute with appreciation. The enigma that is too mysterious may give way to the paradox may allow us to appreciate whatever it is to exist and operate in agape love. I am far removed from agape love because I am as mainstream and middle of the road as anyone can get. Anyone who has engaged in maximum levels of excellence have engaged in an extreme form of profession. Anyone who is celebrated as an explorer and those that live in the most extreme climates and call that their natural home has engaged in that which is an extreme. We are afraid of the word extreme where we have been hurt by the extreme - yet humanity has evolved because of extreme love.
CityVP Manjit
منذ 5 سنوات #127
That is the paradox, one cannot love a person that much without creating a massive vacuum when that person has gone. Only a large enough meaning can replace that size of vacuum. Having lived for a certain individual it is meaning that is the vacuum. Now the challenge is, is there anyway of finding greater meaning that will fill that massive hole where the vortex of love spun. Even if we are ourselves focused on the hurt and want so badly for someone we love to "live again" rather than enter the abyss in the vacuum, the aspect of extreme love is not at all the overdose of love, but an individual person could love a person that much. We forget that while your father was alive, he was the luckiest man alive to be loved by his other half in a way that most of us can't even imagine or envisage. For sure we want people to live again and not find emptiness where a great love was - but that is the paradox of love whether we like it or not. I would rather have your mother love your father in the way she did, than the other paradox - a paradox of empty relationships that never risked putting everything into that one thing. When we get sentimental we see a great love story, when we get attached we see the face of pain but a love like that is not a tragedy - the tragic love is never to have known the kind of love your mother and father knew. I won't take that away from them - but the vacuum is the paradox.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #126
I am just me...completely undeserving of your admiration, my dear Tausif Mundrawala - it is simply what (I hope!) one does when we can feel another's pain. I felt yours...very deeply. You may be surprised to know of my own vunerabilities and weakness. In the last two weeks, I have shown my instability to Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee - all have been graciously dismissive to my angst and I love them all the more for it. I am not whole, I am halved by my own being, and in the last 4 weeks, my husband's recent acute phase - this is now lifting...just in the last 30 hours or so. It has been a journey through which I've had to examine my motives in my care while realizing that it's all on my shoulders: To call the doctor as an emergency leads down a certain path that takes my beloved out of my control because they too have a set-routine to follow. That could potentially lead to poor care which could end up being appaulling quality of life; the snow-ball effect. In all honesty, this is a wing and a prayer - so much of life is, no? Love when you can my friend and passion will find its level as water does!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #125
Amazing you are my friend? Soon a stone shall be worthy more than gold.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #124
Hey - I'm up for stoning dear friend Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee! Self-mocking is bang on!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #123
I believe we may detect your sincerity from your comments dear Lisa. You throw "accusations" at self to make others look smarter. You you add this to abandonment and innocence? May I call it self-sacrifice or self-mocking, but that is up to you.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #122
Dang...I so wish self and selfless came with a better manual - thank you; always.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #121
Nothing like a timely smack, my delightdful Tausif Mundrawala :) It is like venting anger towards your child for scaring the pants out of you! It has taught you a very good lesson: listening! Something I'n not particularly good at :) I LOVE your parents - they are (and was) the seed that bore fruit in you!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #120
You could expand this great line into a book dear Lisa Vanderburg. "Approaching love, we need to regain an amount of innocence and abandonment. If we cannot sustain love as it matures, it will lead to heart-break and even more dilemma!" Innocence and abandonment- how unselfish you are to think this way.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #119
That's the perplexity in a nut-shell, dear Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee! We are bound to many things in the time-span of our love - be it wife/husband, child/parent, adult to aged parent and all those in between. If we make a choice as a caveat to the object of our love, the 'object' (if not included) become a sort of prey. In all circumstances of love, inclusion of the 'prey-menatlity' will ineviably not end well for either party. Approaching love, we need to regain an amount of innocence and abandonment. If we cannot sustain love as it matures, it will lead to heart-break and even more dilemma!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #118
You are correct and profound dear Lisa Vanderburg. I assumed an initial linear relationship at the onset of love because many complex system (and love is one of them) start linear. What we could add to resolve this issue is that the linear growth is true for very short period of times. Love is blind and when we love we become blind to the shortcomings of love. Blindness doesn't help in linear movement; more corrugated ones. So, I truly lean to accepting your point of view.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #117
Wonderfully understood, but for simplicity's sake; to love in the manner I know would require too much of a sane person. Please don't get me wrong! There are millions of carers / caregivers that commit to their task that are far more disciplined - and I suggest, caring - than me. For me, nothing is linear - it's not about my 'charge' nor my 'love'...it's more about being adept at what one does; I am woefully inadequate, certainly in my mind's eye. But we don't chose our carers; that's abig dilemma of its own making! If it's helpful in any way: - Those that we love do not assume what we assume. - We WILL make assumptions; most particularly it is a bent-view of our beloveds intent. That said, every catastrophe anyone encounters will lead to a different way of thinking! It's a matter of learning (and GUESSING) what your beloved wants v needs in the now.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #116
You know, my genius freind Tausif Mundrawala; you have brought up a missing link to this puzzle: space! Repeating myself (quite probably!), we do need space! My father used to take me for one of his night-walks (with a big Cuban Havana). My 'job' was to know when to shut-up, know when to engage. It did teach me that service without self-recovery is a recipe for disaster!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #115
Amen to that! :)
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #114
Catching up...but Harvey Lloyd; a mere couple of generations back (say, 40/50 years) we would have as children, experianced the silent parent, traumatized and withdrawn from war. The re-bound of the years from then 'til now are exraordinary? I could be fooling myself :)
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #113
Great and you bring a good point my friend Tausif Mundrawala. It is "I love the concept of "love" which illuminates a person in respect of other". To what degree of illumination and the dimensions of this illumination. Better understanding, readiness to sacrifice, enhancing respect. Your comment is a mind-stretcher.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #112
I am in agreement with your profound comment dear Tausif Mundrawala that I have nothing to add. In science we say there is no real bonding between two people or materials, it is always stronger through a third party. For some people the third party is relations with God, for others it is self-interest. Many marriages failed under stress or when the fortune of one party suffered. No more self-interest and divorce results. Loves requires the maturity as explained in your wise comment.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #111
Harvey Lloyd mentioned the corrugated line and in a way this is a sort of branching. Yes, different metaphors lead to different results, but may help in our visualization of love.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #110
I believe we were referring to epigenetics. A subsystem of our DNA that seems to carry forward certain fundamental beliefs with survival. #108 Yea it is difficult to describe abstract things in any context but what happens when language is a barrier within metaphor? I find myself discussing concepts with the younger generations and it is as if i am the 12th century monk. I think we would all get schooled pretty hard if that monk came forward and suggested his definition of love.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #109
Having read the post and comments would you say that love as a concept has boundaries rather than linear progressions? From some of the comments we see different styles of love as they apply to those in proximity out to those we dont know. Also we have the narrative bias of our epistemology through generations. I would also suggest that these boundaries are not just based in love but also moral values. A drug addict may need drugs but should we give them money? If we do we know what will most likely happen, yet if we dont we will retain a feeling of not loving the individual. The boundaries of love should direct us. But this is a source of the confusion i would sense also. Each of us places these boundaries differently. Recent social science has placed our ant-fragile children at the feet of overprotective parents. Children were not allowed to sort out their differences on the playground so they didn't learn solutions. But out of love we protected our children from the dragons they now face in adulthood. I would further suggest that love is something at the spouse/child level where you have to show it and experience it. ALthough metaphor may help us express it in a public forum, i don't believe we can truly express it accept through our actions, over time.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #108
Thank you my friend Edward Lewellen for joining the discussions. Over-heated love (or, love overdose or whatever term) is different when we assume symmetrical love from both parties. The trouble starts if it is one directional love and is asymmetrical. I put myself in this position- if I love a girl more and more and her love is still lagging behind mine. What shall happen in the future? I shall tend to protect her or control her. The rreaction of the girl shall be modest to start with, then she will feel bothered, troubled and shall start pulling away. The only time I don't think is possible with mothers who fall in love with her kids (you may name this love with what you want, but surely it is not passion because it is continuing) is the of mother to her kids. Not all mothers, but I have seen mothers who lost their lives attempting to rescue their kids. Apart from this, what shall stop the tendency for love to become chaotic and asymmetrical? In your splendid "90-seconds mind " you l reported the passing away of your daughter and how you dragged yourself ot of this terrible event.Your love to your daughter made you stronger and this is a very noble love- that makes us better.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #107
Yes, but we shall get there, Lisa
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #106
whoa....fabulous thoughts! All I got is we have to find the commonalities instead of the differences. Other than that, my brain fell out.... :)
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #105
I must credit you dear Lisa Vanderburg for you research while commenting. This means real engagement in the discussions and sharing other points of view.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #104
WOW! Now, I think you you would believe me when I said before "the more we think we understand, the reality is that less we understand". The rabbit hole of understanding is confusing.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #103
As much as I enjoy these discussion, to the same degree I am stressed by them. I am taking notes of key points in the discussions and they are building up. I got in a state of confusion. This is the paradox- the more we understand, the less we understand. Not only that dear Lisa, but also arranging my new thoughts resulting from these discussions. Two strange ideas have already been "stored" in my mind. One idea is how generations thinking map changed with social pressures.The inspiration generated from Harvey's comment. A second point is having new insights on human interfaces. All liquids in our bodies have interfaces. How our bodies master the "management" of these interfaces is amazing. Can we find better ways of understanding human inter phases? This is still a very crude idea, but I am trying to find a breakthrough thinking. Only if I could. So, Lisa it isn't your conundrum alone; it is also mine.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #102
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #101
Just had to laugh....''[of love] This like describing an iPhone to a 12th century monk.'' So absorbed in what you were saying, I had to go back for this! That same monk would see you exorcised in the most excrutiating ways :) But like #104 Ali, that generational angle is easier to explain - no babble there! That said, we don't 'nned' more children, our expectations are skewed by social media....we have too much choice and yet so little offering. It is a conundrum.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #100
A subtle point and I need to explore it further
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #99
it would be hard for me to believe that print, TV and now social media has not impacted our view of relationships Keeping in mind that just a few centuries ago love/relationships were the key to survival Today though we don’t need each other in the same way. So love has been redefined since those earlier times
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #98
Thank you dear Lisa Vanderburg for sharing the link. It is a great and insightful post. I need to re-read it, but two points stand out for me and I wish to share them. 1- "broken heart syndrome”- This ties with the second point: 2- Physical Pain Dies, Lost Love Doesn’t Yes, and the bigger the lost love is, the greater pain is. Love that is supposed to generate more love ending in unforgettable pain.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #97
This is a very interesting comment Harvey Lloyd. In this buzz I discussed the love journey map of a lover. Now, I think it is worthy to consider the same over generations. How love changed skin and how the exterior factor affected the meaning of love. I am reading "We seem to want to define perfect love as opposed to experiencing intrinsically love that meets the extrinsic world. I think complication comes when we allow the exterior to mold the interior of our hearts". Has love yielded to external factors over the generations?
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #96
Great is your understanding Harvey Lloyd, and refeshing in new directions! 'Pointedly can we let go of some of the narritive of fear that maybe a parents passed on to us, that no longer apply?' Yes, I think we can...once we've finished beating everybody over the head with it! I like to think if I have issues, they are mine and not to be used as weapons.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #95
Your response to your beloved's brother's pain is understandably normal...it pains me to read of your pain! https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/why-love-literally-hurts This is fascinating!
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #94
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #93
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #92
In human relations balancing is the name. Balancing through negotiation, persuasion, storytelling and by listening to the other side point of view. In business we may afford to go to the extreme hoping for creative solutions to emerge. In human relations this could be very costly and the results could be damaging to all parties. Yes, I agree with you dear Lisa Vanderburg
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #91
It's all about balance; easy in hindsight to say! The examples you give are missing one universal factor - the other half. It's the parents (both) consensus to bring up their children within an agreed platform that often causes so much heartache, much less trauma. Personally, if I'm here: Low-----i---------sane------------High and my husband's: L-------------sane---------p--H then we can expect differing concepts to child-rearing. As I say, we got lucky with our kids. If I had to guess how, it would be that we 'visited the negotiation table' frequently. But, we had moments, like just before the birth of our first-born. 'We are in charge' was the mantra that crumbled fast within the first few months :) I guess it's as fluid a line as love, but I'm hugely grateful for the multiple time-out sessions we had to reconnoiter the battle-field!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #90
You remind me of my late brother Azzam who passed away because of brain tumor at the age of 47. He was my closest brother. At one point observing the suffering he had from tumor and the pain he had to endure I wished him to die sometimes! This is strange that I wished the death of my closest brother and friend. Sometimes, I felt the pain from him departing from life was less than pain I suffered watching him suffering!!!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #89
In line of my previous comment to you dear Lisa Vanderburg that excess may generate the opposite effect applies to you. For thinking of yourself as klutz you are far from being one. If you were how could you then engage readers with such rich conversations?!!!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #88
That is a very interesting question dear Lisa Vanderburg. A colleague of mine who has a sharp mind and a doctorate degree in electrical engineering rejected the idea of getting married. His terrible childhood clouded his mind. He always remembered how harsh and violent his father was. He was scared to get married for fear he would bring up his kids with duress. When his friends finally convinced him to get married he his kids being so soft and tender with them. He overreacted to violence by taking the opposite direction. As good he and his wife are their kids became very irresponsible. The poor guy suffered again from a different issue. On the other hand I have a friend who had a religious father. He (the father) oppressed his ton to pray and didn't allow his son to decide his own path. The kid hated praying and once he left home abroad to study he did everything that isn't allowed for moslems to do. The love of the father for God turned into disobedience to God by the son. The lessons send a message- oppression generates the opposite effect.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #87
Such an amazing truth that comes through your mother's love, dear Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee: The wounds of those left behind in the wake of love remain. The depth of the wounds are the depth of the love under duress, such as prolonged suffering. My understanding of my husband's disease is that his last breath will come with such blessed relief; by that time (a long ways off), I will be happy for him that his suffering has ended.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #86
haha...hey, I'm a klutz CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit - that's the great levity of it all :)
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #85
You've got me thinking.............. I wonder if Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee had used the expression 'love under extreme duress' rather than 'extreme love' how our conversation would alter...... Very nice Franci\ud83d\udc1dEugenia Hoffman, beBee Brand Ambassador
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #84
Deborah Levine- I appreciate your explanation. We tend to tackle issues such as love from different angles. That love may turn into controlling and feeling of possession is agreed upon by many researchers. It shall be interesting to understand why so many long-standing marriages, for example, are ending in divorce. From my own observation of friends and acquaintances jealousy and feelings of imprisonment were main causes.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #83
That is the core point of the buzz dear Franci\ud83d\udc1dEugenia Hoffman, beBee Brand Ambassador. I have seen over-possession repeatedly destroying relations such as love. Jealousy of the wife or husband and this also leads to doubting any "movement" of the other. A long standing marriage ended in separation recently. The husband complained to me that he felt he was spending his life in jail called home. His life became so jealous that when a married couple visited him she doubted that her husband had her eyes focused on the life. Life went like that till it ended in divorce. An overdose of love is dangerous. It is as simple as that.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #82
This is why I believe is the case. If you read my response to CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit comment in which I shared a personal issue with love that I agree with your comment.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #81
'Possessiveness and jealousy are a lack of strength.' I agree with this quote. Thank you dear Lisa Vanderburg for searching before commenting. This is the way to go.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #80
Even in divine love we may have undesirable acts. For example, during Prophet Mohammed few Moslems tended to spend almost all of the time worship in mosques. They were criticized by the prophet for faith is to couple faith with useful actions. Faith alone isn't enough. The most interesting point for me in your comment CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit as an example "Very few of us can reach the depths that Lisa has accepted and in that she has broken through several layers of the human condition, without which she could not love her husband the way she does today". Yes, love is endure long-lasting pain. I recall my father and his last years which he spent in sheer pain. My mother suffered like nobody can imagine. Even after his passing away my mother wouldn't move out of the house because in it she could "breathe the smell of my dad". But again, she suffered as the persistent pain led to health problems to my mothers. She is still living and since my father passed away I have never felt she is living on the memories. Love can be hurting and may also sideline life. An overdose of love leads to persistent pains.
CityVP Manjit
منذ 5 سنوات #79
Lisa Vanderburg Lisa there is Arnold Schwarzenegger and there is Pee-Wee Herman. Emotional weight is no different except when it comes to "extreme love" there are many more Pee-Wee Herman's in our world than with the strength of Arnold. Whatever people cannot lift they will drop. The pull away at the emotional and spiritual level is no different to the pull away at the physical level. The love we normally address is an impression of love, but the actuality of love is what I give you credit for. Your love is not an impression of love, it is the actuality and you did not get any choice to pick up life's heaviness but you did and that is not what the majority of people can do. And now for something lighter - beyond even an Impression of Love : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wNJhdUEH2g
Cyndi wilkins
منذ 5 سنوات #78
Ooof! I think you just outed me Joanne Gardocki;-) 38 Special was a favorite of mine in high school!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #77
Same to you, lovely Joanne Gardocki...I am grateful for your generosity of spirit! I'm no saint - so far from it I'm surprised not to be arrested by heaven's hosts for all the encouragement I get from everybody :) In truth, it's just one decision to love...the rest is downright mayhem!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #76
Such a depth of understanding CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit that I hardly know where to start! Thank you seems woefully inadequate given the understanding you have considered. There is one thing that I don't 'get' but understand at some level; how over the years, so many family members pull away. I think they cannot bear it and if we see them, it'll be 'oh, he seems to be doing fine!' It's a cop-out. I can't hold a grudge for that (for Pete's sake), but it's a little 'plague mentality'. This; '[of physical pain in comparison]....but that pain is a nonsense compared to the birthing pain involved in the paradox of love - that stripping away the heaviness and brutality of a conditioned existence and the hate, fear and evil that may also be a part of that condition, we may not have realized ourselves just how closer we have got personally to agape love.'' What I find at present is the almost unbearable amount of dilemma v insufficient time or room for error. This will increase and decrease as crisis also goes in waves. Just hoping now we see the light at his acute crisis of the last month. Too much me does not help, but I am most grateful for awareness of the brutality of it all. Humbled Manjit!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #75
further proof on how very difficult it is to describe love....lol, CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #74
Reminds me of that word we used when I was young; possessiveness. Checking the google box, this was the 1st to come up: 'It takes someone being very comfortable with themselves to be able to love others. You have to love yourself before you are even capable of loving someone else. When you are possessive, it means that you are afraid. They are your external illusion to "happiness".Possessiveness and jealousy are a lack of strength.' A Quora quote, but covers it well!
CityVP Manjit
منذ 5 سنوات #73
CityVP Manjit
منذ 5 سنوات #72
CityVP Manjit
منذ 5 سنوات #71
Looks like I posted my response in "A Random Walk of Thoughts" though I was responding to Paradox of Love. Maybe the error was due to my wife not being pleased with me this morning because she was expecting me to get ready to leave for a religious puja type event in Hamilton and I was not going to go anywhere until I had composed a response to "Paradox of Love" and posted it this morning. Ha Ha ! In my eagerness I ended up sending it to an earlier posting. I will copy and delete from that other buzz and forthwith provide my response here, which will be moments away :-)
Cyndi wilkins
منذ 5 سنوات #70
That is exactly the tune my mind was playing while I was responding with my comment Joanne Gardocki!...I must have been dialed into your thoughts passing by;-) Nobody likes a cling on for a lover! That will surely snuff that flame right out!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #69
What a shuddering thought, Harvey Lloyd; 'Are we trading religion for government intervention?' Religion (at least in my mind) = fear and rules. Faith = consent and love and reason. That so basic...sorry! :)
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #68
Love 1: Commanding it?: 0 Deborah Levine has just done this BRILLIANT play, although I know that was no her intent. She was ruminating as she spoke. At least, that's what I think! That's often where we get such true gems from!! #68 If I've puzzled you...haha....that's what you get from hangin' with wimmin...lol! :)
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #67
I agree on the mystery segment of you comment. It is a mystery and it is not for everyone but is worthy of exploration. The way you refered to Religion and its rules concerning various human social interactions was intriguing. It conjured up some questions for me. Is religion attempting to show us boundaries of our mental capacity? Things inside covenant agreement and those on the outside in excess can break a human to its gelatinous core. I thought of the public service commercials about hygiene and public safety that now espouse the religious teachings of boundaries and their importance. Are we trading religion for government intervention? Thanks for the thoughts and your willingness to share them.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #66
Now I am puzzled with these thoughts- in a good way!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #65
+This is exactly the same paragraphs I selected from Deborah Levine for sharing same thoughts. This is what puzzled me reading Deborah's comment. She feels at loss. The paradox is that her comments tells she isn't at loss. May be too much clarity generates the opposite effect!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #64
Well, when I was a kid I spend many long periods thinking I didn't exist - a figment of another's imaginings. Somehow, I don't think evidence of my 'other-worldliness' would come as a surprise to you or Ali :) But it was such an enlightening comment Harvey Lloyd, that I believe you're right in asking not only what we worship but, 'What ransom have we paid at the alter of humanity to satisfy this belief?' Excellent.....
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #63
Deborah Levine- even though you wrote "but find myself at a loss on this article" I find your comment to the opposite. It explains the tendency of love to go chaotic and I find your comment of great understanding and relevance to the buzz. So, I am confused of the source of your feeling at loss. I appreciate your comment greatly and I concur with it.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #62
The fact that love is chaotic sometimes is demonstrated by hundreds of articles that I read before writing this buzz Jerry Fletcher in which she wrote "Having said that, in chaotic times such as those we are presently in, the fabric of society begins to fray, the extremes rise to the surface, the unfortunate choices increase exponentially, and the search for help navigating becomes more desperate". Yes, lovers make choices, but where these choices lead them to is the question. The issue I tried to cover in this buzz has been very well-explained in Joanne Gardocki comment. We love work, women, doing this and that, traveling etc. No matter what- when we exceed a limit love turns against us. I gave example in my previous comments. If I am fond of reading and I love it to the extent I don't socialize then I shall be a social failure. I appreciate your comment for it allowed me to explain the buzz better.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #61
oops...I call attention to this beautifully crafted addition Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee's!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #60
Okay...you said you had nothing to say. lovely Deborah Levine?? :) Where to start? '...in chaotic times such as those we are presently in, the fabric of society begins to fray, the extremes rise to the surface, the unfortunate choices increase exponentially, and the search for help navigating becomes more desperate.' That is my worry too; the tighter we get, the more elbowing goes on. Such a treasure of ideas - many thanks!
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #59
The Emperors new cloths is a story of ancient origin, during a time we were wrestling with humanity in another epoch. In that epoch a question was asked. To what length will the mind go to satisfy the heart? The emperor was experiencing an existential crisis of wanting others to see his wisdom. He paid a ransom for something to prove this point only to find the wisdom was not in others but in himself. How are we the emperor today? What existential beliefs have we conjured that we compare ourselves to? What ransom have we paid at the alter of humanity to satisfy this belief? Answers here can only be sought by self.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #58
And to think I saw the same child yesterday holding his new son; his second son...every turns over; it is right! :)
Jerry Fletcher
منذ 5 سنوات #57
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #56
Yes, indeed we are happy to welcome dear Joanne Gardocki back. I shared many comments with her on LI and she is a wealth of moving knowledge. Dear Lisa " your child-son expressed himself sharper than any of us. He said it truthfully and with such eloquence. Children can express complexity in sharper and simpler terms than us.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #55
Such perfect lyrics - and so great to see you, Joanne Gardocki...it's been an age! 'The connecting attribute in everything you share is how applicable it is on so many levels.' How very true that is of our dear Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee. Like you say - he's a giver beyond all! Funny, your comment reminded me of when my child-son said to me' I love that chick so much I want to throw it against a wall' which alarmed me at first. He never did it! But, I checked, it's called 'cute aggression': https://www.gobroadreach.com/broadreach-blog-cute-aggression which is very much like the lyrics!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #54
I meant one thousand wows and not as the typo reads. Sorry for that dear Joanne.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #53
WOW!!! and one thousand woe for your beautiful and sound comment dear Joanne Gardocki. I am elevated by your comment, the examples you share and the song that is spot on. I read the lyrics of the song. These lyrics captured my attention: "If you cling too tightly You're gonna lose control" Wonderful and it it says a lot. The more control we apply, the less control we have on the outcome. I wish many managers would read this eloquent quote. I can easily expand your comment to a dedicated buzz. And I owe you to dedicate a buzz for you. Your comment sings and makes me dance to its music.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #52
Dear Lisa- with each comment you add you not only enrich the discussions, but also adds new dimensions to it. The herd behavior is beautifully reflected upon from two opposite ends. You tempt me to read more about herding. I shall be back- mostly with a buzz to reflect the richness of your comment.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #51
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #50
WOW...fabulous video! You're right - it's the same reaction. So then this is a herd or pack mentality that is beneficial to all unlike mob-behavior that is not. Very nice! It made me look up this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/darwin-eternity/201306/human-herding-how-people-are-guppies The author speculates 'In human societies, herding often involves people using the actions of others as a guide to sensible behavior, instead of independently seeking out high-quality information about the likely outcomes of these actions.' Then a bit further: 'We’re used to thinking of social groups as fundamentally cooperative entities, but with some kinds of groups, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the best-known biological theory of herding, William Hamilton’s “selfish herd” idea [1], proposes that herds are the result of individuals trying to ensure that other members of their species, rather than themselves, will get eaten by predators.' Complex is right, dear Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #49
You r two comments are consistent dear Lisa Vanderburg earlier. Complex systems are fragile because if one prisoner falls most likely the others shall fall too. To get out of this fragility and emerge stronger they self-organize into a circle. This way they all become stronger and in a better place than they were before. I recall seeing a video and food was thrown to animals. I searched for it and found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JmeZXBaUFo Please watch and tell me if it is different from your prisoners story. It is a 2 minutes video
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #48
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #47
`No question or any doubt that I agree with your comment Harvey Lloyd. By definition complex systems are not studies through measurement. If we try to measure we fool ourselves. Like trying to measure the length of the British cost- the measure shall change with the measuring tool. It is only by experimenting and learning that we may understand. It is the system behavior that we attempt to understand and not the behavior of its individual elements. Yes and you are spot on "But this is the rub. Do i toll the bell with condemnation of right and wrong or do it explore with others the fanning of the flames of divinity within each of us"? Exploration is the way.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #46
It is “I” that shall toll the bell:). But this is the rub. Do i toll the bell with condemnation of right and wrong or do it explore with others the fanning of the flames of divinity within each of us? When we take on the concept that each of us, regardless of identity as seen or presented by others, has this spark then we do not need to measure but rather act within the paradigm. Many posts i see on social media confront issues from the perspective of right and wrong. This get measured in ROI terms. In business this a great simple way to look at things. But if this is the only way why does emotional intelligence seem to be a topic that is gaining traction? Emotional intelligence is merely a look at discovering the divinity within each human. A new twist on an idea that is as ancient as man itself. When we battle right and wrong we select sides position ourselves and then defend or attack. When we seek the spark we seek a win-win proposition. Who wants to live in a world where society has dictated that 50% of the population are losers and 50% are winners. This sounds like a recipe to be avoided.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #45
#44 Agreed....very elegant comment Cyndi wilkins - great to see you, sweetheart!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #44
In pursuant to my previous buzz and my comments here I find your comment very elegant Cyndi wilkins. You nailed it by saying "The energy generated by such intense feelings provides us with the perfect opportunity to dig in and make some changes in our heavy emotional patterns". When we are in a high energetic state we are more ready for transforming/ rearranging into new persons. Lovely comment
Cyndi wilkins
منذ 5 سنوات #43
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #42
You've pegged me perfectly Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee - I live exactly as described in your comment - very astute, dear man!
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #41
haha...yup Harvey, we both got stuck out of context - I came back to find a few I new ones to catch up on! (#36 )
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #40
Love is chaos when it becomes the only focus. This can be evident from the time we devote a beloved one almost leaving nothing else in the mind to think about. It leads to secluding self from the world. When become overwhelmed by it and we go into a tunnel with thick boundaries. When it leads to contraction and not expansion and curling up rather than extending the arms. In a way it is a high energy state ready for transformation of diving into chaos. I wonder if you dears Lisa Vanderburg would agree. The extreme for one person might not be the extreme for another depending on their capacity to see love as a way to expand and grow.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #39
Yes! Where's Cyndi wilkins especially!?
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #38
I know the confusion in such a narritive whereby behaviour or the dreaded condition we call Alzheimer's. The choice though, never changes. I can see the behavior and measure its impact on my life or i can see the life in another attempting to express their version of divinity. Neither choice is easy, but one does provide hope of understanding. More importantly it provides a path of sharing i can stand on. If i see only the behavior then i can not stand on the path with you.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #37
While I await your comment to Ali#29 ...I'm not answering that yet; as for Eve: She yearned for something she didn't have and didn't know until that point she wanted it - to be closer (maybe equals) with God. That pesky serpent knew where her weakness was, so I'm not sure all men would agree that she was a pioneer! But it was gonna happen - one way or t'other! :)
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #36
I was responding to the word extreme mentioned by CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit on my previous buzz. Now, that you offer an explanation of what extreme is "If we want to use the word then i would posit that extreme is when we lift our hearts away from the divinity within you concept and hold you up to something existential to find conformity" is commendable. I tried in the buzz to define extreme by the amount of love that is beyond our capacity to hold. The overflow could be our issue.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #35
" I was unloved}- this is a keen issue dear Lisa Vanderburg. How could a mother make her daughter feel unloved? There must be a strong reason and this could be the divinity spark?
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #34
That word extreme again:). What does extreme mean if we lack something to compare. What if a bacteria went through all of population and reduced everyone's hearing by 50%, would screaming still be considered extreme? If we want to use the word then i would posit that extreme is when we lift our hearts away from the divinity within you concept and hold you up to something existential to find conformity. We are quick to use existential comparisons to hold others to conformity, but what do we do when others do it to us. If we merely take them off the Christmas card list then we are fairly mild. I will leave you with statement i read here on beBee. When i look at your behavior i see character problems, when i look at myself it is situational conditions that cause my behavior.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #33
If only women author bees would read your comment Harvey. I don't like to tag people; otherwise I would have tagged them all to read and comment on your comment.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #32
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #31
I too believe we have a spark of the divine; that's the only way to not hate. Very well said Harvey! I just came from Pascal Derrien buzz: https://www.bebee.com/producer/@pascal-derrien-leinster/inside-out which was a very beautiful and moving account of alzheimer's. I surmised that he had to have deep and personal knowledge of this to write so poignantly about it. But it also made me wonder if I could truly feel what he felt of his (Mother...I am guessing) because I was unloved? I can feel it deeply, his words, but I know this is the divinity-spark!
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #30
Ive given Eve a lot of thought these days as it does represent the point of where self awareness began. Your statements are somewhat conclusionary within the thought of Eve being Compititive. Can we be competitive if we are not self aware. If I dont know i am naked can i know you are? So would think that something else is going on at the moments before the apple. The serpant is giving all the context here, not Eve. In the verses it says, and then Eve saw. I dont think we speak to the visual cortex here but rather Eve had a revelation. Personally i believe that Eve had a revelation not of competition but rather a concept of love and hope where she experienced the reflection of self awareness. Unfortunately the serpant was successful in hiding the aspects of nakedness we discuss here. Where as Adam was blinded to this. Which most men are even today. I see Eve as more a pioneer in todays terms, willing to adventure into new territory seeing the best of outcomes.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #29
Fantastic dialogue (not conversation( dear Lisa Vanderburg- I would love would respond first because he is credited with the naked idea in his comments. All I want to add for now Lisa is that it is again the story of Aladdin. Only one person sees the magician. How many people the "new magic clothes which can only be seen by wise people". How many people can see the new truth while viewing it from the lens of the past? How many scientists refuted new science findings because they kept their familiarity lens?
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #28
#22 Couldn't agree more Debasish Majumder - as Ali said, you got me there! That's probably why I think love cannot be contained in any semblence os predictability - it's is chaos itself!
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #27
I don't know to what degree is relevant, but you remind me of the core values of individuals as many people don't know theirs. The same be extended to divinity. As you mentioned Harvey Lloyd " i believe each person has a spark of divinity within them. I need to love that and speak to that". Is this easy to find and with the stress of time people are aware of their divinity as much as they are aware of their core values. Great idea, but who shall toll the bell?
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #26
In my view there are two options my friend Debasish Majumder: Option 1- to keep close to the equilibrium center whenever possible and if you swing away from it then re-balance as soon as possible. option 2- you get pushed to the extreme and you started to live comfortably in the chaos. This is the The chaos Complex. Here, you have two sub-options- to get immersed in chaos or to self-rearrange. Without being self-driven to rearrange into a new structure and new state this is not possible. Look how birds when they fly arrange in V-formation without a leader and in this flying pattern they achieve the best. On the edge of chaos we need creative solutions.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #25
Having read both your and Harvey's enriching previous comments, I'm reminded of Helen Keller's teacher Anne Sullivan, who taught her profoundly blind and deaf pupil sign language by touch association. This (I'm sure you know) was not at all easy! This 'love language' offered in #17 coupled with 'trajectories' in #18 - is it possible to truly understand each other's version or will we inevitably put our own interpretations into play. If I really knew what agape love was, for example, I'd be...er..dead? You're only naked if you know that; 'emperor's new clothes, the. ... It is the title of a fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen about an emperor who pays a lot of money for some new magic clothes which can only be seen by wise people. The clothes do not really exist, but the emperor does not admit he cannot see them, because he does not want to seem stupid.' google.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #24
Debasish Majumder
منذ 5 سنوات #23
i wonder is it chiefly depending upon one to remain close to equilibrium! if we consider love is a reconcile state of two polarized identity, inevitable there will be a condition between two about who will eventually take the credit of its fruit. the contradiction between two will not tend to move towards an edge? if we consider love too a dynamic and its momentum surely lead it to the edge, paving for engendering chaos, how we can consciously avoid it? how an abstract element could be gauged? i am eager to know sir Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #22
This is a great comment dear Debasish Majumder wouldn't respond to it. My answer is balancing. If we go an extreme and far from equilibrium then we invite chaos. On this edge either we restructure or collapse.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #21
In anticipation of how Harvey Lloyd
Debasish Majumder
منذ 5 سنوات #20
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #19
An excellent point Harvey, in the competitive underlying Gen 3 text; in that the sought to compete with God and found out the true meaning of the serpent's deception. In essence, Eve was competing with God - as was Adam, because he didn't intervene. Thus, their innocence lost, they were forever marred. Pretty much like us! You said 'Extreme would seem to measure certain acts against something.' Are we more extreme in time's of crisis...does this too run a 'corrugated' line as Ali suggest in his comment #11 ?
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #18
You remind me of a point that I opted not to include in the buzz pertaining to the kind of love we talk about. We call all of them love, but is this true? Yes, we have different perspectives of love and what follows naturally shall take a different trajectory. The two sides you refer to are there and I expressed this in the bifurcation diagram of love. I stopped at the first bifurcation. I could have extended the diagram to include the bifurcation of love in terms of jealousy and loss of self-trust. Each bifurcation step leads to the next and even more bifurcated stage and hence the onset of chaos. So, again I am in agreement with you.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #17
I would think that overprotective is also a discriptor of the material world. Maybe i am over or under interpreting the adjective. I would think that within a relationships such as marriage their is each owning eschew soul to some extent. So over protection would point towards jealousy or coveting. Each destructive to one side of the relationship. By Pandora’s box i really mean the existential responses that come from such a topic. The fundamental levels of the big five archetypes would dictate that at least five different perspectives would emerge. Add to each of these various narritives and we can have nuances that rival the number of stars. Eros, or sexual passion. The first kind of love was eros, named after the Greek god of fertility, and it represented the idea of sexual passion and desire. ... Philia, or deep friendship. ... Ludus, or playful love. ... Agape, or love for everyone. ... Pragma, or longstanding love. ... Philautia, or love of the self. Love truly is the level of trust of our shadow within another person, our nakedness shared.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #16
Thank you Harvey Lloyd for contributing a mind-enriching comment. Let me start first with your thought "this is Pandora’s box. Love is something that is difficult to explain...". The definition of Pandora's box in dictionary is "a process that once begun generates many complicated problems". I think this definition may be improved by replacing the word complicated with complexity. In the image of the journey of love after the first bifurcation to control and protection shall face further bifurcations till we have chaos at the end. One way to stay out of this potential chaos is behaving in accordance with your following line "Who would you like to be naked with? Who will handle your fears and anxieties with the care and compassion you would expect"? As long as we give to the naked the feelings of safety and wash away anxiety to the extent that the naked will not look for us as protector for the rest of his/her life this shall be great. What happens is when we become over-protective with all its consequences. Yes, I love the way you described love as long as we give it without owning the life of the "naked".
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 5 سنوات #15
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #14
Agree 300%
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #13
Exactly, but there comes a point where one must stop the blame-game and buckle down. The beginnings of maturity, which come later for those who have to repair their own lines. How do they do that? By realized they do not want to ham-strung by the past nor pass that onto their kids in the future.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #12
This is exactly the point my friend Lisa Vanderburg that I am trying to explain. If a mother over loves her kids they shall grow with weak personalities because they shall tend to rely on mothers' control and protection to pave their way in life. Again, you remind me of a student who spends almost all of his time studying and the mother encourages him to do so. What happens next. The student fails in life for he fails to meet its challenges. We need love to lead to brighter future and with excessive love this isn't possible.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #11
Passionately in love comes to my mind Pascal Derrien. I believe there exists a corrugated safety line and if we go beyond it things shall follow Murphy's Law.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #10
Hence the 'smoldering' - a term used in passion and rage, no? I agree with you Pascal Derrien that love and passion are different, entertwined.
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #9
Again, your comment speaks to my mind and heart dear Zacharias \ud83d\udc1d Voulgaris. You are very correct in every word you wrote in your comment. When we love what we do excessively we become so obsessed by it that we develop the tunneling effect. We become blind to what goes on around us. I know personally a research chemist who was so engaged in his research that he saw his son who was born Xmas day the next year Xmas day! Your comment is truly valuable.
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #8
haha...that's a challange - not commenting on it :) Much appreciated my friend! But we are, at least subliminally, aware that this line is there...it is built into us by our parents (hopefully) who teach us boundaries. And then, when we have kids; remember that feeling that you don't want them to grow up? We all know that they will fledge and leave, so instead we do what we can to instill basics like integrity, faith, compassion before they do. That said, bad or inadequate parenting can leave these children unable to see not just the line of extreme love, but the many other lines that were to guide them are broken, so their struggle will be carried on to the next generation IF they don't 'realize' that.
Pascal Derrien
منذ 5 سنوات #7
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #6
There are few comments that are so solid and moving that grab the heart fully. This comment of yours dear Lisa Vanderburg is truly one of the few. I love it as it speaks to my mind and heart. Yes, we live in the chaos of love and, paradoxically, we enjoy its chaos as we become familiar with it. It takes great wisdom to balance excessive love to stay "on the right side of the line". That is why your writing "treat id with respectful respect" resonates strongly with me. Love is dynamic to be living and it changes course. We have a capacity to fill our hearts with love. If we exceed the capacity love overflows and the trouble starts the. Your comment is so solid that commenting on it may not be a wise thing to do. It is a musical one.
Zacharias 🐝 Voulgaris
منذ 5 سنوات #5
Lisa Vanderburg
منذ 5 سنوات #4
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #3
Knowing you well dear Debasish Majumder I dare say there is no poem from you on this buzz. I appreciate your feedback and sharing of the buzz. But, as a person who enjoys reading poetry I dare say that you haven't been moved to the extent to write a poem. I was hoping you would. This is the paradox of expectation- we get the opposite of what we expected. Have a wonderful Sunday my friend.
Debasish Majumder
منذ 5 سنوات #2
Ali Anani
منذ 5 سنوات #1